FTDNA Yorkshire

The original St. Oswald was King of Northumbria in the 7th century. He founded the monastery on the Holy Island of Lindisfarne and played a leading part in establishing Christianity in the North of England. He also became known on the continent, especially in Bavaria and Austria.

“Kirk” is the general old northern word for church, found in a number of Yorkshire place names. Standard English comes from the area around London, Oxford and Cambridge. Until the end of the Middle Ages, Yorkshire was closer in language to Edinburgh than to London.

Martin I found both era if Oswald, king of 7th century and Saint of 10th Century, felt the church in the day with region found the Saint Oswald of York 10th Century would be combined with the word ‘kirk’, given also localities, though the Castle of Saint/King Oswald 7th century is likely, but can not make any conclusions without further information. Also as Martin Styan state found the work ‘kirk’ used elsewhere. For the migration both Oswald of both periods would be of Anglo-Danish background. Which also indicates the Anglo-Danish nature of my R-U106 Y-DNA, with the nature of what is referred to as the Anglo-Scottish Border.

Birge is American, likely in Europe for Barge; France, England, Germany. https://forebears.io/surnames/birge https://forebears.io/surnames/barge https://forebears.io/surnames/burge William Burge b. 1773 Virginia https://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Barge Hamburg could likely go onto Burge of East Anglia. https://named.publicprofiler.org/ hotspot, indicative of Burge (East Anglia). David Birge, you know your family better then I do. Above is just another view. Yorkshire, and surnames known to be found in the Dane Law region. Have Rush line from Suffolk East Anglia to Virginia in 1635. https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/2489985?dpr=2&fit=max&h=244&w=590

Like Gail Andrews Hardy T124143 2 hours ago How does this pertain to Northumberland? Unlike You like this Mark Elliott 7 minutes ago “The Kingdom of Northumbria was a medieval Anglian kingdom in what is now Northern England and south-east Scotland. The name derives from the Old English Norþan-hymbre meaning “the people or province north of the Humber”, which reflects the approximate southern limit to the kingdom’s territory, the Humber Estuary.” Wikipedia Before Roxburghshire, and Northumberland the name was Danish ‘Northumbria’. At this time the name ‘John’ was likely utilized as a personal name without surname, which came up from today’s southern Poland-Germany region, where the Anglo-Saxon have traveled out of. So the personal of ‘John’, became not a surname, but the promenade for names in the northern region of Northumbria (Lotia-Northumberland), and when the border between the Kingdoms of England and Scotland was placed it was placed across families utilizing the name ‘John’ as a personal name then a forename. Like

Cynthia Pickett you know the chief wears a steel bonnet and thinks of me as a ‘vagabond’, but give you this link anyway; https://elwald.com/clan-elliot-29th-chief-margaret-eliott-of-redhuegh-stobs/

do you know anything about the genetics of the brigantes tribe? i was born in the heart of elmet in what is now west yorkshire, and i wonder about their influence in that part of the world

You just introduced me to them. The information given by you was knowledge gaining. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/08/82/d7/0882d774a44ee0d768e3afcd67fcf9b1.jpg https://www.abroadintheyard.com/wp-content/uploads/British-Isles-2-Roman-final-JPG-e1462557594124.jpg They have DNA. Question is what DNA and are they still in region? Maps verify support the locality given by you, Ian. Sure other people if they know anything at all know more than I and hopefully will respond.

Ian Wood, Though the name Ian seems to not have much use in America, finding it in Scotland and on the Borderlands. Note the early spelling in the Yorkshire region, is from and Anglo-Saxon name ‘Wold’, converted to Old English ‘Wood’, like from ‘Elwold’ to ‘Elwood’, variants of what in some cases became ‘Elliott’. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/91/Southern_Wolds.jpg/220px-Southern_Wolds.jpg OE Yorkshire ‘Woods’.

my paternal great grandmother had maiden name bell, from bradford

Maybe I should not bring this up. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Mystajek/publication/275654871/figure/fig3/AS:614233792335872@1523456156042/Wolf-distribution-in-Germany-in-the-monitoring-year-2013-2014.png https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/wild-elks-return-to-germany-a-853581.html Wolf and man eat elk (moose), and they seem to be converging in a cycle near Berlin.

Was trying to test R-A6722 by FTDNA, but when I listed it, it did not seem to be accepted, so it was tested by Yseq my ID-kit no. 4067. 15360712-15360712 Allele T+, tested date tested 2020-01-06. les » Alleles My Allele Results YSEQ ID 4069 SampleID Ordered Marker+ Chr Start End Allele 4069 free A6719 ChrY 8178421 8178421 G+ 4069 2016-03-15 A6719 ChrY 8178421 8178421 G+ 4069 free A6722 ChrY 15360712 15360712 T+ 4069 2020-01-26 A6722 ChrY 15360712 15360712 T+ 4069 free A6724 ChrY 16956830 16956830 C- 4069 2016-03-15 A6724 ChrY 16956830 16956830 C- 4069 free S16361 ChrY 12639168 12639168 G+ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullykelter_Castle https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullykelter_Castle https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/3195397?dpr=2&fit=max&h=837&w=590

An Elliot died at Casco Bay in 1690? A dangerous place. I had relatives killed by Indians in the vicinity in the mid 1700s. Anything to do with this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Falmouth_(1690)

Thanks so much Mark, I really like the way you have combined the possible ancestry of “Foss” with a touch of DNA i.e. R-U152. As I struggle to find autosomal matches with the other English Foss lines, my intuition keeps taking me to follow other leads. We thought there may be a link to the Foss Way between York and Devon, or the Foss river, but as yet, no connection. Interestingly on the photo above with Ryal, a May Ryall- Derby is my 5th grandmother.

From info placed on Wikitree, who thinks I lie, so I do not utilize them for my own genealogical research unless I can back them with references. Would not meet my father’s standards. Those Mormons meet and really go beyond our standards; https://www.familysearch.org/ YOU Can Do DNA; those ladies geneticist put genealogy the horse ahead of the cart, and work independently of the corporations. https://www.yourdnaguide.com/about On of the conflicts with historically men in positions, they had a bias towards the occupational past. Now a days it seems to be the ladies. It is good to have people represent you which have experienced the world, but not a a bias basis. In Wyoming put a lady into position then have her sort things out. Family history, genealogy, is something like that, you go into it with your biases, and try to get concepts from people around you, but you for your own family get to sort things out. https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/3425698?dpr=2&fit=max&h=158&w=590 Would like to give these ladies the strongest genealogical name I know, since dad had help from his mom, Margaret the 29th clan Elliot chief’s father Sir Arthur, had help from his mom, and the chief is a high level genealogist herself, would like to give these ladies the strongest genetic genealogical family history name to ever be bestowed on a team; The Mormon Moms.

Mark Elliott April 10 @ 9:57pm Foss is a name of a river, running north of York, Yorkshire. The name foss indicates the river has waterfalls in Norwegian . http://www.yorkshiredalesriverstrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/River-Foss-catchment-map.png This region of Yorkshire is noted for Scandinavian names being apart of Danish Northumbria at one time. The Devon Foss is on the coast very south part of Devonshire. Could be a later by Viking, from the Danish region which named the River Foss going north of York, and likely your surname may have evolved from. In this group finding many surnames which evolve from place names. In Devonshire, likely from and ancient Roman road called the Foss-way, from which the name is derived. http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Periods/Roman/Topics/Engineering/roads/Britain/_Texts/CODROM/7*.html (html needs to be included) Like James Crowther likes this Craig Foss April 10 @ 10:29pm Thanks Mark, although I am not clear? So there are also two Foss Rivers?? I had no idea. So the York Foss line/families (probably associated with the River Foss(e) may have Scandanavian heritage. The Devon Foss line/families (possibly also from scandinavin-viking heritage). So the two Foss lines may be related but only after going back to Scandinavian/viking roots? And The Foss Way actually links Lincoln/York with Devon/Devonshire? Like James Crowther likes this April 11 @ 10:46pm In Devon, it is a Roman Road referred to as Foss-way. The time of Roman roads is previous to surname adoption. This road seems to travel through the region of Devon surname Foss. In Yorkshire there is a River Foss north of York. So Devon is a Roman road named Foss, which would give place name from the road of Foss, and Yorkshire has a river name. Foss north of York which is felt the place where your surname is more likely from. Foss is a Norwegian word for waterfalls, and it seems that the Foss River Yorkshire is noted to have waterfalls, and maybe since Scandinavian names are common for the region the river received its name from having waterfalls.

Thanks Mark, Had a look at the links. Please bare with me. How do you get from Vos to Voss to Fox to Foss?

Linguistic migration is out of Germany, with the Germanic languages. Like with Vos for Fox, if it is a surname there is a tendency for surnames to have a single letter ending. Entering East Anglia, it seemed to have the surname for fox of Vos, but further in an ‘s’ was added given ‘Voss’. This does not go for all surnames ‘Foss’, but yours of Yorkshire, retains it’s East Anglia, to Yorkshire, old Northumbria Anglo-Saxon-Danish identity. With the influences of other names Fox/Fuuss, likely developed a variant ‘Foss’, may be not exactly on the road described but a road with the same destination of name evolution. Note; your first approach because it is your name we are referring to is the best. If what I say does not apply then toss it, but keep what you feel applies. Genealogy is taking bits a pieces and putting the story together. One can always shelf things, and bring them out if at some late date they feel they may apply, or never use them. For your family that is up to you. Fox and Wolf, are a couple of animal surnames, and there are more. Feel these are among the older surnames. Usually there are variant surnames off the animal surnames. Foss would be an example.

Interesting, Mark, thanks for posting. That’s intriguing and I did not know that. I wonder if the same root is in Danish or Old Norse. I know “Wilken” and “Vilken” are given names in Denmark and Norway. I know there was an old Danish myth/saga where the son of one of the mythic kings Volundr was named Vedja or Wilken and killed a giant called Langbeen Riser. Supposedly, landmarks in Zealand are claimed to be the artifacts of the giants’ grave and oven. These are folklore of course, but it is interesting that the name appears in Scandinavian mythology.

Thank you very much Mr. Mark Elliott!

If anyone ever needs an image off a FTDNA blog, just click right mouse button, and ‘cut and past’, the link like I have done here with the image above. https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/3404061?dpr=2&fit=max&h=307&w=590

Lesley Redman, Likely not your line of Spencers, but here’s link; https://elwald.com/james-whitley-spencer-tree-dna/

When this was posted did not expect popularity. It is felt this is because of the http://www.stricklanddna.org/ Strickland DNA Project Brigham Young University. It surprized me.

Interesting. I know there was a clatch of Wilkinson in Coquetdale in Northumberland at least as of late 1300s (near what is now Rothbury, I believe and not too far from Alnwick and Warkworth). They were English Middle March reivers (or at least some of them were). I’ve never known of any Wilkinsons in Fermanagh, but I’ve also never bothered to look since my line traces to Antrim. But I suppose its possible that transplants to Fermanagh might have in turn migrated to other counties in Ulster?

First Name Surname Barony/Lands Landlord/Estate County John Wilkinson Loughty Sir S. Butler Cavan Robert Wilkinson ONeallan F. Satcheuerall Armagh Nicholas Wilkinson ONeallan F. Satcheuerall Armagh John Wilkinson ONeallan F. Satcheuerall Armagh Henry Wilkinson Armagh Lord Primate of Armagh Armagh Christopher Wilkinson Clankelly C. Waterhouse Fermanagh Abraham Wilkinson Clankelly Mr H. Montgomery’s churchlands Fermanagh William Wilkinson Dungannon Lord Viscount Powerscourt Tyrone Robert Wilkinson Mr Church (Mercers) Londonderry Michaell Wilkinson Town and Liberties Coleraine Londonderry http://www.therjhuntercollection.com/resources/muster-rolls-c-1630/search-muster-rolls/ Likely a yellow instead of an orange circle, on English side of border, moving to Co Armagh, then maybe Fermanagh. From the region of the white triangles, Cumbria. Found a likelihood this happened with the name Ellwood, of Cumbria becoming Elwood of Down near Armagh. https://named.publicprofiler.org/ Atrium seems to pair with Down, for the Presbyterians, and Fermanagh seems to pair with Armagh for the Anglicans (maybe also Tyrone).

Because of my religious beliefs, of being of The Religious Society of Friends a Quaker, and not of the Latter Day Saints, a Mormon; being one who follows leadings, it is with great honor that I am being guided by a well qualified team of family genetic genealogists of which some people call mom. Though my hero was JP in Sweetwater Co, Wyoming which I once lived, and stands in front of the Wyoming statehouse, and inside the US capitol, who brought for the first time with any government the women’s right to vote, name Esther Hobart Morris, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/EstherHobartMorrisCheyenneW.jpg/220px-EstherHobartMorrisCheyenneW.jpg about a half century before the US government did, Brigham Young the hero for Utah proposed that women should vote, but with all his wifes, the US Government did not allow it. First states in US women had the right to vote, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, and Colorado, all with populations of Latter Day Saints the Mormons. Ladies, Palmyra, is between Rochester, and Seneca Falls, and Susan B. Anthony born a Quaker, Lucretia Mott lived as a Quaker, along with Elizabeth Cady Stanton Unitarian. Note, a Puritan seemed somewhat like a cross between a Unitarian and a Quaker, which Susan B. Anthony would most fit that description. “The monument to suffrage at the U.S. Capitol, called the Portrait Monument, proudly displays the busts of pioneers Lucretia Mott, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony, who launched the women’s movement and first fought for women’s right to vote, which was finally granted 144 years after America declared itself a nation of liberty for all. https://assets.atlasobscura.com/media/W1siZiIsInVwbG9hZHMvcGxhY2VfaW1hZ2VzL2ViZWQ2MWUxZTM3ZGY5MWJiYl9Qb3J0cmFpdE1vbnVtZW50SW1hZ2UwMS5qcGciXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIsIngzOTA-Il0sWyJwIiwiY29udmVydCIsIi1xdWFsaXR5IDgxIC1hdXRvLW9yaWVudCJdXQ/PortraitMonumentImage01.jpg

Only Agnes Brown married in Roxburgshire between 1680 and 1730 who did so after 1721: BROWN ,AGNES ANDREW TELFORD/FR1623 (FR1623) 27/11/1724 793/ 60 19 Kelso

No Thomas Wilkinsons married in Roxburgshire in same period.

https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Kelso-Eckford-Yetholm-.jpg Did you know there is a kirk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Yetholm, they even ride horseback from Kelso to Yetholm and have a song about it. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Gary-Cleghorn-Yetholm-Day-official-video-2010.mp4 The Pringle also had a tower in the region referred to as Smailholm Tower. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00c8gmm Need to include this link because of demand; https://gorrenberry.com/macmanus-mcmanus/ Basically within the Ulster Plantation, the MacManus, once Catholic, migrated from Belfast to Co Fermanagh, and likely then became Anglican, not Presbyterian. Border Reiving families being Nominally Catholic, have this trend to be Anglican, then Episcopalian, then Methodists. They seem to like those Catholics but do not care much for those Presbyterians. From; Bradley Porter June 6, 2017 https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/gibson/activity-feed https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/1801457?dpr=2&fit=max&h=434&w=410 Here’s a map of the UK and Ireland highlighting the frequency of people with the Gibson surname. I found this through Mark Eliot in the Scottish DNA Project. 7 people like thisRamona Bachman Woodrum Rex Gibson Brad Gibson Junior Gibson Roy Gibson They kicked me out of the Scottish FTDNA project, guess I am just a Border Reiver anyway. Even got kicked out of the Border Reiver, and Elliot FTDNA groups. Thomas Telford, a famous Scottish engineer is from the Glendinning region where they are finding R-L193 Glendinning and Elliot Y-DNA from; https://gorrenberry.com/elliot-glendinning-r-l193-sub-l513/ Telford is a border reiver name https://named.publicprofiler.org/ https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Annandale-Eskdale-Thomas-Telford-of-Glendinning.jpg https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Bentpath-Westerkirk-Glendinining-of-Thomas-Telford.jpg https://gilnockietower.co.uk/ This is from the region the Kinmont/Kinmount name is from. A fort of the kin to the Armstrong, mounted in a saddle. When they moved down to the mouth of the Esk on the Liddel, and the Armstrong built a tower, though call ‘Kinmont’ again, because it was on the month of the river, they sometimes called it ‘Kinmouth’, this is where Kinmont Willie Armstrong which Willie O'(Over) Gorrenberry Ell(i)ot helped rescue from Carlisle Castle was first from till he moved his tower to the White River Sark, at Kirk Morton, and now lies buried in Kirk Morton Cemetery on the east side of the River Sark, which his tower was on. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Kinmount-Hoprig-Wind-Farm.jpg Ulster 1630 Muster; First Name Surname Barony/Lands Landlord/Estate County James Brown great Ardes Lord Viscount Clannaboyes Down This region to me is considered the home region of the Ker/Kerr, Carr Time Team – Season 11, Episode 12 – The Lost City Of Roxburgh (Roxburgh, Scottish Borders) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOokEfx1cEY Gives a concept excepting the Duke of Roxburghe, Floors Castle why many Kerr/Ker Carr do not live there. They were there to establish the Elliot chieftain lands of Redheugh and Larriston. Consider them family, from long ago. With linguistic name beginnings of Elwald-Anglo ‘elk (moose) of the woods’, and Ker-Norman elk (moose) of the thickets’. PoBI; People of the British Isles project shows similar DNA for those which fought on both sides of The Battle of Hastings, similar to that of those in both sides of the European Theater in WWII having similar DNA. One of the rules I use in genealogy is that; families fight, and they are both likely to be correct. A way one can tell if they are related.

Finding that early spelling up to roughly about 1600 is ‘Wilkesone’, then after ‘Wilkisone’. Searching Google Books for the name.

Mark, are you generating all this, or are you gathering it from LDS databases or other resources? It’s all fascinating. If it is something others can access, can you please direct us where/how?

Generated it updating and correcting. Web shows a lot of people are coming to this FTDNA Yorkshire blog to get these graphics. Guess John you are at the front of the line for a lot of them. Just Google Images ‘FTDNA Yorkshire’, or ‘FTDNA Irwin’ and you should pickup on many of them, and where they come from. Use a couple free programs; (screen capture) https://screenhunter-portable.fileplanet.com/download And, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IrfanView found on computers at the Family History Library, Salt Lake City, Utah, USA. Plus a word processor, ‘Open Office’ to put graphics on collectively and screen capture them. Also since there are a lot of research genealogists associated with Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, USA, Google Image search Brigham “DNA”, and Brigham “FTDNA”, turn up images and links I put online. Going back the generations, I can use all the help I can get, and even need a Guide Team.

Very good, sir!

The Fews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fews (like Co Fermanagh has an EU/Brexit border) “…based on the territory of the O’Neills of the Fews.” “…settled mostly by Scots with names such as McClelland, Sterritt, Morrow, Hamilton and Atkinson during the Plantation of Ulster.”

Thank you Mark, I will look into the Armagh Wilkinson lines. I have done no digging there since my family genealogy goes dark in Antrim. But perhaps that is just where they sailed out of to America.

Proceedings of the Royal Irish Academy: Archaeology, linguistics and … https://books.google.com › books Royal Irish Academy – 1942 – ‎Snippet view FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 134 The witnesses are John Wilkinson, John Shawe and Robert Conninghame. A deed (No. 26) of the same date,32 makes the transaction a little clearer. It refers to the deed of 13 (rede 14) March 1606 (supra, No. 12), by which Con O’Neale … https://books.google.com/books?id=QNQXAQAAIAAJ&q=inauthor:%22Royal+Irish+Academy%22+John+Wilkinson&dq=inauthor:%22Royal+Irish+Academy%22+John+Wilkinson&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjStr3mn6PkAhVPs54KHQfxC64Q6AEwAHoECAIQAQ Proceedings of the Royal Irish Academy: Archaeology, linguistics and … https://books.google.com › books Royal Irish Academy – 1937 – ‎Snippet view FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 79 Section C. Royal Irish Academy. Tipperary county — sSir Walter Butler, Sir John … Coleraine — Barnabas Bryan, John Wilkinson. Armagh county — Sir Toby Caulfield,** 9Sir John Bourchier.* Armagh — Marcus Usher, Christopher Conway. John Wilkinson By dad Loren S. Elliott; http://www.elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/lse-clan-gen-1992-2.png https://books.google.com/books?id=tW6edf-80pIC&pg=PA496&dq=Gabriel+Coningham+Daniel+Elliott&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7wODno6PkAhWLpp4KHYAJBX4Q6AEwAHoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=Gabriel%20Coningham%20Daniel%20Elliott&f=false Note, my Elliot line is Anglican-Royalists, Episcopalian, Methodists. https://books.google.com/books?id=BSsaMrvvhKQC&pg=PA79&dq=%22de+Coningham%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiN9ISIpaPkAhWWvp4KHam3Bs4Q6AEwAHoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q=%22de%20Coningham%22&f=false https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Chasing-my-Y-DNA-part-32.pdf Daniel Elliott of Fermanagh, had an older brother Robert Elliott, Baillie (legal admin) for the Sir John Hamilton estate Co Armagh. Family names on a Hamilton muster in Co Fermanagh. The Hamiltons were Royalists, of Charles II, giving a Royalist town name of Charleston, MA. http://www.therjhuntercollection.com/resources/muster-rolls-c-1630/search-muster-rolls/ FirstName Surname Barony/Lands Landlord/Estate County John Conningham Oneallan Lord Primate of Armagh Armagh Robert Wilkinson ONeallan F. Satcheuerall Armagh NicholasWilkinson ONeallan F. Satcheuerall Armagh John Wilkinson ONeallan F. Satcheuerall Armagh Henry Wilkinson Armagh Lord Primate of Armagh Armagh https://books.google.com/books?id=BSsaMrvvhKQC&pg=PA79&dq=%22de+Coningham%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwifyYyJxKPkAhWTvZ4KHRr1DVMQ6AEwAHoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q=%22de%20Coningham%22&f=false

Dear Mr. Mark Elliott! Can you help me? I would like to read it too books under the pasted link because I also care. I managed to download one in Pdf. format. Not the other one. However, this is necessary for my translation into the compiler, because I can’t read it any other way, because of my little English. Do you have “The Conquest of Ireland” in Pdf. format? Best regards, László

After doing a little research, I’m not sure the Armagh hypothesis fits. The estates lists were for high end nobles and the Wilkinsons listed would have had to be independently armed to make the roll. To the best of my knowledge, my line was farmers of not much more than subsistence level pedigree. The Francis Sacheverell (misspelled in the muster roll) was a prominent gentleman out of Leicestershire well south of even the English borders. The other estate was for the (C of I) Bishop of Armagh (who was James Ussher at the time). That seems pretty high end for my line. If we had hailed from any of these lines, I think our family history wouldn’t become so obscure once it crosses back to Ireland. I also couldn’t find any references to border reivers being placed in Armagh. The borderer hypothesis is somewhat shaky too since the only Wilkinson borderers I know of were on English side and I don’t think many of them got transplanted (though I could be wrong). Either way, I think perhaps the most probable theory remains a Scottish (likely lowland) settlement in Antrim or Down, possibly as early as the Hamilton-Mongomery settlement in 1606: https://web.archive.org/web/20080516050437/http://www.hamiltonmontgomery1606.com/home.asp

The 1600s were an UGLY time.

Thank you very much! I finally understood everything and the connections. I already understand the story of your family. This bad is the lack of English. I have to learn.

Unless opportunities such a Scottish Borders National Peace Park is made, the migration to the former colonies, and the ‘lowlands’ of Europe also Germany of people from the Scottish borders is still going on to this day. Remember one does not get to pick their relatives; https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Scocha-Reivers-are-Riding.mp4 From Hawick (pronounced ‘hoik’) Scottish Borders.

This is intriguing, but insofar as Wilkinson is concerned, I think we have to concentrate on the DNA and not the surmnaming. The Wilkinson project has at least 10 or more separate Y-haplo family clusters. The Y differences mean these can’t be commonly descended lines. Which must mean that the surname was independently adopted in different regions by different lines independently. But that too is a fascinating artifact. I presume it is because surnaming was a Norman convention and post conquest, I imagine William was a very popular male name.

Very interesting and one could learn the research methods of Mark Elliott. Max will be happy again for this post, and he understands English more easily than I do, so He’ll adjust to the other pages he showed him.

John Wilkinson, There is this whole army of genealogists, which know what they are doing out of Provo, Utah, USA. A school named for an Anglo-Borderer like us called, ‘Brigham Young’, and I would like to see what they as a group can come up with given some of the information; Calkins R-DF25 “Hugh Calkins immigrated to America, ca. 1640, one of a “Welsh Party” who emigrated from Chapstown, Monmouthshire, England. They settled first at Green’s Harbour, Plymouth Colony; moved to Glouchester, Massachusetts Bay Colony, in 1641, and to New London, Connecticut, in 1651. Hugh Calkins moved to Norwich, Connecticut, in 1661 and died at Norwhich in 1690, at about age 90. Descendants and relatives listed lived in Connecticut, New York, Michigan, Utah, and elsewhere.” https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/735504?availability=Family%20History%20Library https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/333865?availability=Family%20History%20Library https://www.google.com/maps/place/Chepstow,+UK/@51.2862093,-2.2910543,8.04z/

In response to; John Wilkinson 9 hours ago I have about 200 “Mac” matches. Quite a few names. I didn’t analyze distribution. Maybe a slight plurality of MacDonald. But quite a few other “Mac”s. Almost all Y12 with a few Y25. One of the Y25 MacDonalds does list an Angus MacDonald b. ~1727 in Scotland,though doesn’t specify where. At Y25 (nothing higher) only 10x “Mac” matches, but MacDonald ties with Mackie at 2 each and both of those are behind Mackenzie with 3. John Wilkinson 8 hours ago “Mc” matches are over 800 counting Y12. If I filter to Y25 (nothing higher) it drops to about 25. No real pattern though a couple McDonalds.

This is intriguing. I posted a picture of my GGGF’s family a few months ago on eon of the Scots Irish projects (I can’t remember which one). A fellow on there who was raised in Antrim near Larne was struck at how similar my GGF (who was about 10 in the picture) resembled a boy named Wilkinson that he had gone to primary school with. Possibly just coincidence, but intriguing to have someone startled by a resemblance in a location my family had left nearly three centuries ago. Shortly after that, I found a couple articles. One that discussed Viking remains that included 4x U152 and 2x of those were L20 like me. And another that discussed how Larne Ireland had been a Viking settlement, but ultimately was absorbed into surrounding Irish community after decisive defeat of Vikings by local Celtic King. Here’s an alternative hypothesis: my line is Danish Viking (maybe rump Celtic Cimbri line from Jutland since we are U152 and not the usual U106). A clan of us came to British Isles in ~800s AD. Paternally Y related kin established lines in what is now Northumbria/Borders/Lothians, my line shipped over to Larne. The matching I have is picking up that old split between brothers or father/son. All speculation, but possible. However, as per your other post, I need to check the possible Armagh connection. Especially since Black (my only other BigY match) seems to have a strong presence there.

Thanks for that Martin book lead, I wasn’t familiar with his work. I am familiar with the thread on Ancestry and have tried unsuccessfully to contact Ray McQuilkin. It’s a tantalizing lead, especially since at least some ended up in North Carolina. Unfortunately I have no Rathlin Project matches over Y12, and to my knowledge I’ve not seen any U152 on Rathlin Project. But its a pretty small cohort. The surname and the proximity to Antrim/Rathlin/Kintyre/Islay make it theoretically plausible, I just don’t have any matching yet that allows me to hang the argument on. I have one Y67 match who was adopted out of Aberdeen, but believes he has identified his paternal line to MacNeil on Tiree in mid-1700s. That guts me to the Western Isles, but that very small and indirect near miss, is about as close as I get. And unfortunately traces to MacNeill rather than MacDonald which is what you’d think. I know “true” MacDonald is R1a. So if I have a MacDonald linkage, it would be only by clan/sept affiliation, not descent. I’ll post my Rathlin and Mac/Mc matches and see what you think.

Here are Rathlin matches, all Y12 only, except the first: Black R-BY69713 Boyd R-M269 Morrison R-M269 McKeehan R-L21 Faul R-BY4221 U2e3 Black R-BY68417 Wilkins R-M269 Swenson R-ZZ19_1 J1b1b2 Mccurdie R-M269 Calkins R-DF25 Davis (Illsley/Hildesley) R-BY19437 McFaul R-M269 The first Black is a BigY match of mine. I don’t think he has known descent from Rathlin, he joined after we matched. So far as I know, he can only trace to Tyrone in mid-1800s. He’s my deepest Yhaplo match at BY69713, but on STRs we are only Y12, which continues to baffle me. The Wilkins match is one of those weird matches with no account linkage (deceased?). Only M269 which doesn’t tell much. The Calkin name is interesting. I’ve seen arguments that McCulkin is a variant of McQuilkin, but I’ve found no matching to me that really supports this claim. There is one McQuilken fellow on the project, but he and I don’t match even at Y12.

I have about 200 “Mac” matches. Quite a few names. I didn’t analyze distribution. Maybe a slight plurality of MacDonald. But quite a few other “Mac”s. Almost all Y12 with a few Y25. One of the Y25 MacDonalds does list an Angus MacDonald b. ~1727 in Scotland,though doesn’t specify where. At Y25 (nothing higher) only 10x “Mac” matches, but MacDonald ties with Mackie at 2 each and both of those are behind Mackenzie with 3.

“Mc” matches are over 800 counting Y12. If I filter to Y25 (nothing higher) it drops to about 25. No real pattern though a couple McDonalds.

Martijn Niekus, Goed om een ​​Martijn/Martÿn/Martyn/Martin Nijckes/Nÿckes/Nyckes/Nickes uit Nederland te hebben. Waarschijnlijk een sterke kennis in verschillende talen, plus kan Y-DNA achternaam concentratiepatronen lezen. Heeft u Kerr/Carr DNA-overeenkomsten?

What is the source of this data? I’m intrigued by the notion that U152 had an appreciable presence in East Anglia and Yorkshire, then heads to Lancashire and Cumbria and up to Scotland? Is this based on ancient remains analysis? Current Y haplo distribution? Is the arrow direction an interpretive estimate based on relative density? This is all very interesting but I don’t quite understand what it implies, nor what actual metrics its based on. I joined the Yorkshire and East Anglia projects hoping that it might show some linkages to trace my Scotland matches back to, but it was a bust. Very few Y25 in Yorkshire and none in East Anglia. No clear indication any Y12 or Y25 are same Y Haplo as me (U152 or more refined, e.g. Z367 or L20). I’d love to find that my U152 line dates to bronze age, or even La Tene, but so far I haven’t seen any way to determine when, where or how it arrived anywhere/anytime between ~2200BC and Norman Conquest. It seems like it could have come in anywhere in between, maybe with slightly higher probability of Roman period and/or Norman, but that is just a guess. Recent Viking remains had 4x U152 samples, 2 of which were L20, which was surprising and gave me some hope perhaps that was a key. That was actually why I joined Yorkshire and East Anglia, but hit a dry hole again. My MDKA came from Antrim Ireland. Apparently Larne in Antrim was an old Viking settlement. Perhaps that is the key. But that runs contrary to my matches from Aberdeen and Midlothian. Oy.