FTDNA J2 M172 YDNA DNA
مدرسة الكويكرز الفلسطينية التي صمدت 150 عامًا من الحرب والاحتلال – كويكر سبيك
تأسست مدرسة أصدقاء رام الله عام ١٨٦٩ على يد اثنين من الأصدقاء من نيو إنجلاند، حين كانت فلسطين لا تزال تحت الحكم العثماني، وتوسعت لاحقًا لتضم حرمين جامعيين في مدينتي رام الله والبيرة المتجاورتين. وقد أجرت QuakerSpeak مؤخرًا مقابلات عبر تطبيق زووم مع رانيا معايه، مديرة المدرسة، وعمر تسديل، أمين مجلس أمنائها.
صمدت المدرسة لعقود من العنف خلال الاحتلال الإسرائيلي للضفة الغربية، بل وتعرضت لهجمات في بعض الأحيان، لكنها ما زالت مزدهرة. يقول عمر: “عندما يبدو الأمل معدومًا، نسعى جاهدين لتوفير ملاذ آمن يشعر فيه الناس بالترحيب والحرية، بينما هم خارج أسوار المدرسة ليسوا أحرارًا على الإطلاق”.
Family Tree DNA social photos 3719534 (1181×912)
American Friends Service Committee – Speed read – NobelPrize.org
Family Tree DNA social photos 3730883 (1180×884)
Family Tree DNA social photos 3712452 (1180×598)
Поскольку у меня нет доступа к набору FTDNA №101829, пожалуйста, используйте набор YSEQ №4069, чтобы найти для меня семейного историка Марка Стефан Эллиотта.
Family Tree DNA social photos 3730883 (1180×884)
Family Tree DNA social photos 3712452 (1180×598)
Поскольку у меня нет доступа к набору FTDNA №101829, пожалуйста, используйте набор YSEQ №4069, чтобы найти для меня семейного историка Марка Стефан Эллиотта.
Michael Moore: English Civil War: Battle of Worcester 1651 | PBS LearningMedia
Westmorlandia_Cumberlandia_Atlas-Saxton 1576 mP.jpg (8880×7001)
On Will of Robt Elliot and family, New Castle, Kittery, Maine b. 1643 by MSE 5/23/2012
Difficult to Transcribe plus Confusion and a Result with Clarification-1.pdf MSE-7-19-2012
Graham Grantham Ancient Roman J-M267 DNA – Gorrenberry
File:Sasine deed 1484 for Robert Elwald (Elliot), Redheugh, Larriston, Hartsgarth.jpg – Wikipedia
Armetage-Hermitage-Armestrang-Armstrong-Castle-Bothwell.jpg (1030×960)
FTDNA–social-photos-3719534.jpg (1181×912)
Fathers-Father-4-Robert-Elliot-and-Colonial-Maine-Royalists.pdf MSE
Chasing-my-Y-DNA-part-57.pdf MSE 3-27-2013
A true and exact history of the island of Barbados | Project Gutenberg
Scottish Poetry Selection – Wha Daur Meddle Wi’ Me?
The royal coat of arms in Scotland has the Latin motto “Nemo me impune lacessit“. The English translation of this is “Nobody interferes with me with impunity” and this is often defiantly expressed in broad Scots as “Wha daur meddle wi’ me?” which is the title of this anonymous poem. But on this occasion it is being aggressively repeated by a member of the Elliot family, one of the Border families who not only fought their neighbours but were part of the first line of defence against marauding English invaders – and could sometimes defy the Scottish monarch as well!
File:Sasine deed 1484 for Robert Elwald (Elliot), Redheugh, Larriston, Hartsgarth.jpg – Wikipedia
File:Crozier and Elliot in Upper Liddesdale Blaeu 1654 map.jpeg – Wikipedia
https://www.familytreedna.com/social-photos/3719534
Tullykelter-to-America 3/1/2012 Mark Elliott PDF
Die Riding Clans in Ulster von Robert Bell PDF
File:Sasine deed 1484 for Robert Elwald (Elliot), Redheugh, Larriston, Hartsgarth.jpg – Wikipedia
Elwald-de-Armstrong PDF
Peace On The Border
After the riding we dispersed We drifted home in twos and threes Through cold and rain we spat and cursed This ancient war of families
In Barbados Anglican-Royalist Scot POW from the English Civil War 1650 were indentured to the Barbados Plantation, this a precursor to the African slaves.
В этот бесценный момент во всей истории человечества все люди на этой Земле поистине едины – едины в своей гордости за то, что вы сделали, и едины в своих молитвах о вашем благополучном возвращении на Землю.
АСТРОНАВТ АРМСТРОНГ. Спасибо, господин Президент.
Mark Elliott
Glen Foster likes this
Jan Van Kort
Did anyone mention this before about the “reivers”? To rob, plunder, pillage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_reivers
Mark Elliott
Yes, I am descended from on of the most notorious ‘Thieves of Liddesdale’, Clementis Hobs ie Clement Crozier’s sister’s son Robert Elliott, and thank you for giving us a good name. https://inews.co.uk/light-relief/offbeat/1000-word-curse-caused-havoc-five-centuries-made-523270 Van Kort you can not hide your name behind the Dutch, you are still a ‘Little’, and many of your family carry an R-L193 like many Elliott, and Glendinning do from the valley of Meikledale, of the Glendinning, Scotland region; https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Old+Schoolhouse+-+Glendinning+Farm+Cottages/@55.2530267,-3.1060402,17z/ https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Marker_for_the_Tower_of_Clan_Little.jpg/230px-Marker_for_the_Tower_of_Clan_Little.jpg https://www.google.com/maps/place/Meikledale+Lodge/@55.1579556,-3.0746435,10.23z/ Just because you carry that J-M172 you rode with us. Here is what a Nixon and an Armstrong did from the Scottish side Middle March like the Elliott and Crozier, https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/President-Nixon-speaking-with-astronauts-Armstrong-and-Aldrin-on-the-Moon.mp4 It almost ruined our good name.
Glen Foster
Well that curse explains a lot! LOL
Mark Elliott
Jérôme Gasnier https://forebears.io/surnames/gomer https://www.google.com/maps/place/14880+Colleville-Montgomery,+France/@48.0493441,-3.3312294,6.23z/ Gomer Surname Definition: (Hebrew) Perfect [Hebrew Gómer, from gámar, to perform] The sons of Japheth: Gomer . . .Gen. x. 2. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Montgomery,+UK/@52.5534015,-3.2062054,12.83z/ https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Montgomerie_%281er_comte_d%27Eglinton%29 https://www.utahstandardnews.com/24-december-scots-book-of-days-hugh-montgomery-earl-of-eglinton-receives-remission-christmas-eve-1540-descendant-of-the-bruce-and-ancestor-great-grandfather-of-donald-trump-junior/ Hugh Montgomerie (1er comte d’Eglinton) : Haplogroupe J2a1-L26 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_haplogroupes_des_personnes_historiquement_connues
Glen Foster likes this
Mark Elliott
Want to show you Jan Van Kort and Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زم what us Elliott may look like in tartan and kilt.
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان likes this
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان
what is tartan and kilt?
Mark Elliott
A tartan is a plaid square design in the fabric, which is worn on a skirt called a kilt, introduced by Gaelic speaking Scots, like the presidents mother, known also genetically to have red hair. Clans-families have there own tartan, the blue one being worn is of the Elliott clan. At first the word Scots meant those on the main island now Scotland which spoke the Gaelic, were called Scot. Those which left the region of where the Scot was spoken like to France, may acquired the name Scot(t), because they were from the region of the Scot and did not upon leaving have a surname. This concept may also work in the Arabic language. Begin to note that Arabic utilizes a lot of place naming in the names. A lot of Anglo-English names end in -ton, -town, -ham, and so on came from places. This helps quite a bit in the family history, especially along with matching DNA. Example of Clan Elliot tartan-plaid ترتان https://www.scotclans.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/elliot_mod_big.jpg
Adrian Heathcote
Mark Elliott — you are haplogroup R and I am not sure why you are posting over and over again in this group. Would you mind taking yourself OUT of the group and posting your surname theories somewhere else. Your idea — to the extent that I can make any sense at all of it — is that there was some emigration of J2 from Arabia to the Borders of Scotland. This is so ridiculous it doesn’t deserve discussion — but if you disagree then it would still be best if you propagated your theories somewhere else and to a different audience. ADMIN.
Glen Foster
Mark Elliot could be wrong in some of his ideas, but he is trying to help others.
Mark Elliott
Glen, Of the Scottish Middle March Families of granddad exiled from both kingdoms in 1607. Gorrenberry Tower was torn down and family exterminate. DNA shows genocide. An American and do not claim any kingdoms of the United Kingdom, it’s flag the Union-Jack is that of reiver history genocide. There is a whole history of use reivers, including Walter Scott. Both Walter Scot and James VI of Scotland a protestant were of the Scottish dialect but wrote in English. When James VI of Scotland became James I of England he had the King James version of the bible written in English not Scots. Then he went about his policy of exile and extermination of reivers. That’s why you find them today both sides of the Brexit-EU in County Fermanagh, we married the Irish, on the Scottish Borders Middle March family; Armstrong, Elliott, Nixon and Crozier, on the EU/Brexit border top five are considered family; Maguire, Johnston, Armstrong, McManus, and Elliott. Maguire is a form of McGuire which is on your list. Need to give example; with Maguire and McGuire. Both Maguire and McGuire are similar sounding names. Using localities in today’s UK, the name-DNA branched on part to Ireland where the name adopted the Gaelic spelling of Mag-Uidhir (pres mom Scots-Gaelic), then Anglicize to Maguire, in the locality of County Mag-Uidhir then Maguire then Fermanagh. The other north to where the Foster are on the Scottish Border became the name MacGuire, then when it migrated to Co Fermanagh, Ulster Ireland it became the name McGuire, and found on your list with your Foster J-M172 Y-DNA. The rewrite of the history which does not match the Y-DNA and that makes me totally incorrect. With genealogy-family history one does not get anywhere unless they do it reiver style by pitching in like Peter Kifle has done. Most people when they pitch in will look totally incorrect. This is how one gets it correct; THE FAMILY KNOWS BEST. Not a rule but if you do not follow it one can not get the overall family history correct. Inconsistencies seem to work themselves out. Can not do the genealogy, without especially in this group people pitching in, but that goes for everyone and no one should be singled out especially the administrators, which will pitch in as see fit when the time comes. Now we are at the root and leaves we have a lot in between to deal with. This group is in the language of English, and our lines have evolved in the language longer than others, so will have to give examples that are really quite foreign to those which a lot more recently came into this language.
Mark Elliott
Did find; Gebru Kifle (~1800-18??) in Middle East project but an E-M35. It should be noted that projects map does include the Eritrea East Africa region.
Peter Kifle
Hi Every one. My name is Petros kifle from eritrea east Africa. My Haplogroup is J-M172. I don’t know even what does mean. can some one explain me the only thing that i have understand about this is my Paternal lineage is J-M 172.
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان likes this
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان
Google it, you find a lot of information about this Haplogroup 🙂
Mark Elliott
This Peter Kifle may be at the root of the tree, with the reivers out with the twigs and leaves.
Glen Foster
May be a dumb question, but who were the J-M172s who came into England? I assume the ancient tribes of Britain and Scotland were not J-M172s. Did the J-M172s come from the Romans, the Saxons, the Normans or and Angles? Or a combination of these, or or some other group entirely. From what I have read on this page, it seems that some Romans may have been involved. I know they originated in the Arab world thousands of years before. Also, is J-M172 rare?
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان likes this
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان
it is not rare here in the middle east, J-M172 is very common here
Adrian Heathcote
Romans were involved, but they did not ”originate in the Arab world thousands of years before.” Romans, Normans and sundry emigrants from France, the Low Countries and Germany are likely contributors to the J2 in Britain.
Mark Elliott
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زما You’ll be surprise what us reivers can do, especially since we have some of that J-M172 Y-DNA which came from the land of the Arabs, all we have to figure out is how it got to Hadrian’s Wall.
Glen Foster and Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان like this
Jan Van Kort
Reivers? Something out of a sci-fi movie? I was born a Little, autosomal dna traces me to a James Little and Jane Herron in Pennsylvania 1784, fresh immigrants from Ireland. Y-111 traces me to a Morgan Williams in the late 1400’s. Yet somehow I’ve got two Y ancestors in a gravesite in the Hebrides of about 100bc (might have to revisit that date) and another slightly earlier one in Sweden. So I just bought an upgrade to the y-111, the BIGY. There’s a story in there about how a Williams became a Little, I want to find it. Geography shows Hadrians wall is considerably to the south of the Hebrides and Sweden. The migrant map shows J-M172 came west long before there were countries with names we recognize today. (they came from the Caucasus area). Maybe long before names historians even know about, cities never written about, unknown countries, un-named kings. Ireland, Scotland, England has man-made construction as old as 15 thousand years, who built it? J-M172 seemed to move west with agriculture and tech, the oldest evidence of man in the UK is related to agriculture and roads. I think J-M172 came to the UK when man didn’t need a boat to cross the English channel. J-M172 also came with the Romans but I’m fairly certain it was already present.
Mark Elliott
List of Border Reiver Surnames A list of Border Reiver surnames from both sides of the border include: Anderson, Armstrong, Beattie, Bell, Blackadder, Bromfield, Burns, Carlisle, Carnaby, Carr, Carruthers, Charlton, Collingwood, Cranston, Craw, Croser, Crozier, Curwen,Dacre, Davison, Dixon, Dodd, Douglas, Dunn, Elliot, Fenwick, Forster, Gilchrist, Glendenning, Graham, Gray, Hall, Harden, Hedley, Henderson, Heron, Hetherington, Hodgson, Hume, Hunter, Irvine, Jamieson, Jardine, Johnstone, Kerr, Laidlaw, Latimer, Little, Lowther, Maxwell, Medford, Middlemass, Milburn, Mitford, Moffat, Musgrave, Nixon, Noble, Ogle, Oliver, Potts, Pringle, Radcliffe, Reed, Ridley, Robson, Routledge, Rowell, Rutherford, Salkeld, Scott, Selby, Shaftoe, Simpson, Stamper, Stapleton, Stokoe, Storey, Tailor, Tait, Thompson, Thomson, Trotter, Turnbull, Turner, Wake, Wilkinson, Wilson, Witherington, Yarrow, Young. https://englandsnortheast.co.uk/border-reivers/
James Sprunger has a question!
“What is the next step to clarify ancestry if you have no Y-25 or Y-37 matches? Are there SNP tests that will help? ”
Mark Elliott
Sprunger surname seems to be concentrate in the Berner Jura District, Switzerland https://forebears.io/surnames/sprunger May want to look at some of your 12 marker exact matches and see if the come from Switzerland, or check with Google Maps to see whether they are place names out of Switzerland. Note; 107132 Daniel Roll b. 1700 (Bern, Switzerland) and d. aft J-Y12610 28627 Peter Roll b.c.1763 Uetendorf, Bern, Switzerland J-M172 390034 Jean Vidal, b. 1695-1715 Saint-Flour, Auvergne J-SK1313 345028 Ulrich Tüller b. 1619 Bern, Switzerland J-M172 Do you match a Roll, Vidal, or a Tüller. Feel Berne, Switzerland is a good bet for where you are from. Also Sprunger may be spelled Sprünger.
Mark Elliott
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Little_Klein_Cline_Kline?iframe=ycolorized Jan Van Kort, (‘van kort’ from ‘Little’, which is from ‘Liddel’) The name Little comes from the Liddel Water which is the boundary between England and Scotland and goes in to Liddesdale, dale of the Liddel. Eric Liddell of Scotland 1924 Olympics of ‘Chariots of Fire’, movie would have obtained his name from this region also. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Liddel+Water/@55.1649681,-2.9544687,10.81z/d Actually is a 29th Chief Margaret Eliott of Redheugh; https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Reiver-Trail-Magaret-Eliott-clan-chief.mp4 Jan Van Kort, given the dispersion of J-M172 markers among the Little, what you said makes a lot of sense. Since they were of the region, the obtain their surname in an era a lot of R-L193 Little obtained theirs. Likely in the 14th century John de Liddel then the ‘de’ was dropped it became John Liddel, through phonetic spelling the Liddel evolve into the name of ‘Little’ you find of the region today.
Glen Foster
Good evening – My name is Glen Foster. My family line is Foster/Forster. The family migrated to Pennsylvania in the early 1700s from Northern Ireland and many subsequently moved on to Ohio and then to Iowa and then to other locations in the western US. The family in Ireland seem to be part of the Ulster Scots who originally came from Scotland or from northern England. I am not 100% sure that all of my Foster ancestors came to the US by that route, some may have come from other parts of England. Are there any Fosters in this group? I received my Y111 test result today. My haplogroup is J-M172. Not sure why mine seems short compared to others. Is there something else that needs to be done, or I need to do? Do I need to do special testing for SNPs or is this still being done by FamilyTreeDNA? I ran this on the SNP tracker and it only covers the Paleo era and does not go beyond that. I have seen other go all the way to the Roman or Present era. Thanks for your help! 🙂 Kit No. 919766
5 people like this
Lawrence Stickell
Glen, do you have a tree on Ancestry? Autologous DNA?
Glen Foster
Lawrence – yes I have a tree on Ancestry – GRFoster242; Foster-Cottrell-Harris-Johnson tree,
Glen Foster
Lawrence Stickell – What is your Member Name on Ancestry? I will look you up as well. Thanks Glen
Glen Foster
Lawrence Stickell – what is your ancestry member name and tree name?
Mark Elliott
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زما You can purchase, mtDNA, but it is only good for exact matches as far as genealogy is concerned. Myself I had one, and no immediate family research with it. If you talk to others you match as you learn the genetics, they will not understand what you are saying. The Hunt(er) is my in-law. https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/2216763?dpr=2&fit=max&h=319&w=590 related through the Crozier c1541, an the Foster/Forstar, witnessed a deed to land our Clan Elliot, 29th chief lives on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sasine_deed_1484_for_Robert_Elwald_(Elliot),_Redheugh,_Larriston,_Hartsgarth.jpg The people from the Arabic nations are quite supportive of DNA. The two companies, which incorporate one is strong in genealogy, and the other does not seem to know the first thing about it; THE FAMILY KNOWS BEST, and it is a shared experience among family. Both companies seem to be operated by those which think they may be the chosen people, but this group of J-M172 the Simpson, Foster, Hunt and so on, we are kind of not chosen people. Americans which lost their histories on the border of Scotland-England, and that of Ireland-Ulster, but a high proportion of American today. Old guys can get stuck biased on their own concepts in a short time. The Peoples of the British https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/ Isles study by and international group of geneticists, taking auto-somal DNA from rural people of the British Isles, but it did not include surnames, and language other than English in the model. Though I know that the president likes to say he is American, his mother is Gaelic, of not the English language; https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-38648877 likely a lot of Arabs and Iranians have a stronger American history then he. If a model for J-M172 can be made on how to incorporated various languages going from the Middle East to Hadrian’s Wall, it can be model from going from the Middle East to India or Russia for instance. Travel the language and the J-M172 will travel with it.
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان likes this
Mark Elliott
click right to open image in new tab https://j2-m172.info/links/cultural-history/ Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زما
Lloyd Hunt
Ok I may have stumbled on a brilliant clue on my J-L70 Hunts. At first when I tested and found that our family tree had many unfortunate non J-L70 Hunts attached. So I backed off connecting all the ancient Hunts ascribed to our family – Sir Turgitus Hunt, But this is all a bit too convenient of course so at this site https://sites.google.com/site/fivegateways/alphabetical-index-h/hunt attributed to Armytage, G. J. (1870) The Visitation of the County of Rutland in the Year 1618-19, Taken by William Camden, Clarenceux King of Arms. London: Harleian Society. So we see below that the Hunt name actually comes in several generations later after de Stoke Now to our friend who earlier posted about the Wake family you will note they are there as well A1. Turgitus. B1. John, son of Turgitus. C1. William de Stoke. D1. Theobaldus de Stoke, Knight. E1. Gilbertus de Stoke, called The Forester, m. Mathilda, daughter and heiress of John Ridol, of Ramesthorpe and Ashley. F1. Thomas, son of Gilbert, m. a daughter of Sir Humphrey Stafford, Knight. F2. Turgitus de Stoke, kn. 20th Edward II, m. Alice, daughter of John Vessy. G1. William de Stoke, Rector of Ashley, called le Hunt, kn. 20 Edward II, m. ? a daughter of John Braybrook, Knight. G2. Henry de Stoke, kn. 10 Edward II, 19 Edward III, m. a daughter of John Bellers. H1. Turgitus le Hunt, m. a daughter of Sir John Wake, Knight. I1. Theobald le Hunt. But here is the actual fascinating part. In trying to deal with the Latin (any Latin scholars here?) I find this…. Panicum turgidum [1] is an old world clumping desert bunchgrass of the genus Panicum. It is a plant of arid regions across Africa and Asia, and has been introduced to other parts of the world…. It is common across the Sahara and Arabia, from Senegal to Pakistan, and known by a number of common names, most widely as Taman, tuman, or thaman in Egypt and Arabia; merkba or markouba in Mauritania and some Saharan Arabics; and afezu in Tamachek.[4] Other common names include guinchi (eastern Sahara) and du-ghasi (Somalia). It grows on sand dunes in hot, dry climates, and will also grow in latosols.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panicum_turgidum So might the Turgitus mean desert which would seem to be absolutely brilliant.
Mark Elliott
“Turgitus le Hunt, m. a daughter of Sir John Wake, Knight.” https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Armitage-Hermitage-Y-DNA-linguistics-census.-place-name-map.jpg “Armytage, G. J. (1870)” https://archive.org/details/calendarofdocume02grea/page/298/mode/2up John Wake lands Nov 10, 1300 AD note; The Hermitage Castle was defended by the Elwald (ie Elliot). The ‘Ellot’, were brought down from Angus, after the Declaration of Abroath 1320, which established the lands of the Kingdom of Scotland, and the Hermitage Castle of the Douglas Earls of Angus.
Lloyd Hunt
Very interesting – so you know what my theory is that their may have been a bit of a social milieu among J’s at this time. I believe some Vesseys (variant spelling), Wakes and who knows how many others
Mark Elliott
There is kind of a split in the way the J-M172 comes into the UK, one way is the Aliot of Southern France then becoming ‘Eliot’ southwest England, the Britons another way is Anglo for south Denmark-north Germany ‘Elwald’ into East Anglia. My Y-DNA of a R-P312 splits and travels both directions, and I recognize there at this time was likely some J-M172 in the DNA add-mix.
Mark Elliott
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/foster?iframe=ycolorized Just picking up that mainly J-M172 (Graham J-M267) among the borderers called Reivers which lived between Kingdoms or Scotland and England. Foster is one of them. Johnstone is a place name from Johnstone, Scotland nearby were Armstrong. In County Fermanagh, Ulster Ireland, Johnston without ‘e’ is 2nd and Armstrong is third in surname size. Foster is a border name and found in Ireland. Foster in County Fermanagh, Ulster, Ireland among the 1. Maguire, 2. Johnston, 3. Armstrong, 4. McManus, and 5. Elliott it is most concentrated.
Glen Foster likes this
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان
You wrote in Arabic 😁 i wish Ahmed Al Haddad will help.
Glen Foster
Thanks again! 🙂
Lloyd Hunt
There was a theory that the original Foster Foerster was a in fact a forester. As an aside obviously not Y but my family tree – is teaming with the two
Mark Elliott
Lloyd Hunt, Not theory, the name Foster, Forrest is occupational, meaning Forester, my early name Elwald part stems from the German ‘wald’, meaning Forest. It strongly relates to Hunt(er), in arms are utilize the ‘hunting horn’. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/elk-head-and-antlers-Elwald-Hunters-and-Foresters-hunting-horn.jpg note; The ‘Horn of Ulf’, is kept in York. https://archive.org/details/chroniclesofarms00arms/page/n13/mode/2up
Mark Elliott
https://named.publicprofiler.org/ https://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Richter Because J-M172 DNA has been around a long time, it seems to be among other Y-DNA groupings in migration, this is a example of a block group which are related. Most of Germany, most likely Saxony, with the name Richter occupational for judge. The Carson because closeness of Y-DNA is related, like from Anglo-Saxon migration into England then out at Ulster, Ireland. It seems like a lot of the J-M172 are of the borders and migrated so. To block out name sets with this diverse group, it takes a knowledge of the language of these particular groups, which I do not have but hopefully others can blog out Y-DNA of family groupings they would have a knowledge of. This is a community south of where I live called Zuñi, which has been here before Europeans, and were attacked by Coronado in 1540. Have a Speckle Egg story, about two groups picking from two eggs, and the Zuñi choosing first the speckle one they ended up with crow, and stayed in their region at Zuñi, the other ended up with parrot and went south. Zuñi of the Q-DNA which went into South America. If the people of Zuñi traveled south, the way to find them is to bring a Zuñi and see if they can find people speaking a similar language. DNA travels with language. This group has many people of many languages which could help travel the language and the surnames, to find the migrations of the J-M172 DNA.
Glen Foster likes this
Glen Foster
My wife’s grandmother was a Carson. So her location in the Cavan/Ulster matches my wife’s mother and father (McManus/Leonard). location Map matches our records and knowledge – https://named.publicprofiler.org/ . Another puzzle piece.
Mark Elliott
https://forebears.io/surnames/hayes http://www.jmhartley.com/HBlog/category/heading/ydna/ There are names which migrate to Hardrian’s Wall which carry the J-M172, though they may be written in various languages, the phonetics sound could likely show similarities. The above though for the rare R-P312 in my region which I’m of can be applied to the rare J-M172 in the region also. The family name which was used in the above in Lentz, the name from the Middle East is Hayes, and the matching are shown in the charts. It helps to have Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد in the group because he knows both the Arabic, and the English, he should be able to recognize surname similarities, though the patterns in which they are used; a different the elements should show similarities. After all he knows I can’t handle the Arabic. Hay in Arabic القش straw. Though https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/ is an excellent genetic project, done by an international staff, utilizing auto-somal regional DNA, it did not have to contend with language, because it only dealt with the DNA, not the surname.
Mark Elliott
Jan Van Kort has a question!
“where do I find the glossary of terms used? ”
Phillip Hunt
Jan – go to HOME, bottom of page, LEARNING CENTER, then GLOSSARY
Jan Van Kort
thank you
Garrett Hellenthal – The Genetic History of the United Kingdom: the POBI project Jun 9, 2015
Garrett presents results from the People of the British Isles (POBI) project, an exploration of the fine-scale genetic architecture of the United Kingdom. Using the DNA of individuals sampled across England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, Garrett illustrates the striking correlation between an individual’s genetics and their geographic origins. Furthermore, by comparing the DNA of UK individuals to that of individuals sampled from continental Europe, we identify clear differences in ancestry among different geographic regions of the UK, reflecting the genetic imprint of the Anglo-Saxon and Norwegian Viking migrations from several centuries ago.
Garrett has a PhD in Statistics
https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/
International staff, utilizing proper regional sampling procedures over generations, with surname exclusion, makes this a highly accurate study useful to people of applied location DNA for years to come.
surname HELLENTHAL;
Uncovering our roots By JEWISH STANDARD December 26, 2008
https://jewishstandard.timesofisrael.com/uncovering-our-roots/
The wedding of Walter and Carola Heuman Fromm on Aug. 24, 1930, in Euskirchen, Germany. Members of both families attended. Courtesy egon fromm
It started as a summer vacation in 1973, a roots trip for us to the town of Hellenthal, Germany,….
German Ex-mayor Sentenced for Burning Down a Synagogue …www.jta.org › 1952/07/09 › archive ›
Wilhelm Fischer, former mayor of Hellenthal, a small town near Aschen, Artur Schoeller and Edmund Gottwald were tried here on charges of participating in the …
https://www.jta.org/1952/07/09/archive/german-ex-mayor-sentenced-for-burning-down-a-synagogue
4/27/2020 MSE
A true and exact history of the island of Barbados | Project Gutenberg
Tullykelter-to-America 3/1/2012 Mark Elliott PDF Mark Elliott
Glen Foster likes this
Jan Van Kort
Did anyone mention this before about the “reivers”? To rob, plunder, pillage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_reivers
Mark Elliott
Yes, I am descended from on of the most notorious ‘Thieves of Liddesdale’, Clementis Hobs ie Clement Crozier’s sister’s son Robert Elliott, and thank you for giving us a good name. https://inews.co.uk/light-relief/offbeat/1000-word-curse-caused-havoc-five-centuries-made-523270 Van Kort you can not hide your name behind the Dutch, you are still a ‘Little’, and many of your family carry an R-L193 like many Elliott, and Glendinning do from the valley of Meikledale, of the Glendinning, Scotland region; https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Old+Schoolhouse+-+Glendinning+Farm+Cottages/@55.2530267,-3.1060402,17z/ https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Marker_for_the_Tower_of_Clan_Little.jpg/230px-Marker_for_the_Tower_of_Clan_Little.jpg https://www.google.com/maps/place/Meikledale+Lodge/@55.1579556,-3.0746435,10.23z/ Just because you carry that J-M172 you rode with us. Here is what a Nixon and an Armstrong did from the Scottish side Middle March like the Elliott and Crozier, https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/President-Nixon-speaking-with-astronauts-Armstrong-and-Aldrin-on-the-Moon.mp4 It almost ruined our good name.
Glen Foster
Well that curse explains a lot! LOL
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Mark Elliott
Jérôme Gasnier https://forebears.io/surnames/gomer https://www.google.com/maps/place/14880+Colleville-Montgomery,+France/@48.0493441,-3.3312294,6.23z/ Gomer Surname Definition: (Hebrew) Perfect [Hebrew Gómer, from gámar, to perform] The sons of Japheth: Gomer . . .Gen. x. 2. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Montgomery,+UK/@52.5534015,-3.2062054,12.83z/ https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Montgomerie_%281er_comte_d%27Eglinton%29 https://www.utahstandardnews.com/24-december-scots-book-of-days-hugh-montgomery-earl-of-eglinton-receives-remission-christmas-eve-1540-descendant-of-the-bruce-and-ancestor-great-grandfather-of-donald-trump-junior/ Hugh Montgomerie (1er comte d’Eglinton) : Haplogroupe J2a1-L26 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_haplogroupes_des_personnes_historiquement_connues
Glen Foster likes this
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Mark Elliott
Want to show you Jan Van Kort and Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زم what us Elliott may look like in tartan and kilt.
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان likes this
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان
what is tartan and kilt?
Mark Elliott
A tartan is a plaid square design in the fabric, which is worn on a skirt called a kilt, introduced by Gaelic speaking Scots, like the presidents mother, known also genetically to have red hair. Clans-families have there own tartan, the blue one being worn is of the Elliott clan. At first the word Scots meant those on the main island now Scotland which spoke the Gaelic, were called Scot. Those which left the region of where the Scot was spoken like to France, may acquired the name Scot(t), because they were from the region of the Scot and did not upon leaving have a surname. This concept may also work in the Arabic language. Begin to note that Arabic utilizes a lot of place naming in the names. A lot of Anglo-English names end in -ton, -town, -ham, and so on came from places. This helps quite a bit in the family history, especially along with matching DNA. Example of Clan Elliot tartan-plaid ترتان https://www.scotclans.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/elliot_mod_big.jpg
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Adrian HeathcoteMark Elliott — you are haplogroup R and I am not sure why you are posting over and over again in this group. Would you mind taking yourself OUT of the group and posting your surname theories somewhere else. Your idea — to the extent that I can make any sense at all of it — is that there was some emigration of J2 from Arabia to the Borders of Scotland. This is so ridiculous it doesn’t deserve discussion — but if you disagree then it would still be best if you propagated your theories somewhere else and to a different audience. ADMIN.
Glen Foster
Mark Elliot could be wrong in some of his ideas, but he is trying to help others.
Mark Elliott
Glen, Of the Scottish Middle March Families of granddad exiled from both kingdoms in 1607. Gorrenberry Tower was torn down and family exterminate. DNA shows genocide. An American and do not claim any kingdoms of the United Kingdom, it’s flag the Union-Jack is that of reiver history genocide. There is a whole history of use reivers, including Walter Scott. Both Walter Scot and James VI of Scotland a protestant were of the Scottish dialect but wrote in English. When James VI of Scotland became James I of England he had the King James version of the bible written in English not Scots. Then he went about his policy of exile and extermination of reivers. That’s why you find them today both sides of the Brexit-EU in County Fermanagh, we married the Irish, on the Scottish Borders Middle March family; Armstrong, Elliott, Nixon and Crozier, on the EU/Brexit border top five are considered family; Maguire, Johnston, Armstrong, McManus, and Elliott. Maguire is a form of McGuire which is on your list. Need to give example; with Maguire and McGuire. Both Maguire and McGuire are similar sounding names. Using localities in today’s UK, the name-DNA branched on part to Ireland where the name adopted the Gaelic spelling of Mag-Uidhir (pres mom Scots-Gaelic), then Anglicize to Maguire, in the locality of County Mag-Uidhir then Maguire then Fermanagh. The other north to where the Foster are on the Scottish Border became the name MacGuire, then when it migrated to Co Fermanagh, Ulster Ireland it became the name McGuire, and found on your list with your Foster J-M172 Y-DNA. The rewrite of the history which does not match the Y-DNA and that makes me totally incorrect. With genealogy-family history one does not get anywhere unless they do it reiver style by pitching in like Peter Kifle has done. Most people when they pitch in will look totally incorrect. This is how one gets it correct; THE FAMILY KNOWS BEST. Not a rule but if you do not follow it one can not get the overall family history correct. Inconsistencies seem to work themselves out. Can not do the genealogy, without especially in this group people pitching in, but that goes for everyone and no one should be singled out especially the administrators, which will pitch in as see fit when the time comes. Now we are at the root and leaves we have a lot in between to deal with. This group is in the language of English, and our lines have evolved in the language longer than others, so will have to give examples that are really quite foreign to those which a lot more recently came into this language.
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Mark Elliott
Did find; Gebru Kifle (~1800-18??) in Middle East project but an E-M35. It should be noted that projects map does include the Eritrea East Africa region.
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Peter KifleHi Every one. My name is Petros kifle from eritrea east Africa. My Haplogroup is J-M172. I don’t know even what does mean. can some one explain me the only thing that i have understand about this is my Paternal lineage is J-M 172.
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان likes this
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان
Google it, you find a lot of information about this Haplogroup 🙂
Mark Elliott
This Peter Kifle may be at the root of the tree, with the reivers out with the twigs and leaves.
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Glen FosterMay be a dumb question, but who were the J-M172s who came into England? I assume the ancient tribes of Britain and Scotland were not J-M172s. Did the J-M172s come from the Romans, the Saxons, the Normans or and Angles? Or a combination of these, or or some other group entirely. From what I have read on this page, it seems that some Romans may have been involved. I know they originated in the Arab world thousands of years before. Also, is J-M172 rare?
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان likes this
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان
it is not rare here in the middle east, J-M172 is very common here
Adrian Heathcote
Romans were involved, but they did not ”originate in the Arab world thousands of years before.” Romans, Normans and sundry emigrants from France, the Low Countries and Germany are likely contributors to the J2 in Britain.
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Mark Elliott
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زما You’ll be surprise what us reivers can do, especially since we have some of that J-M172 Y-DNA which came from the land of the Arabs, all we have to figure out is how it got to Hadrian’s Wall.
Glen Foster and Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان like this
Jan Van Kort
Reivers? Something out of a sci-fi movie? I was born a Little, autosomal dna traces me to a James Little and Jane Herron in Pennsylvania 1784, fresh immigrants from Ireland. Y-111 traces me to a Morgan Williams in the late 1400’s. Yet somehow I’ve got two Y ancestors in a gravesite in the Hebrides of about 100bc (might have to revisit that date) and another slightly earlier one in Sweden. So I just bought an upgrade to the y-111, the BIGY. There’s a story in there about how a Williams became a Little, I want to find it. Geography shows Hadrians wall is considerably to the south of the Hebrides and Sweden. The migrant map shows J-M172 came west long before there were countries with names we recognize today. (they came from the Caucasus area). Maybe long before names historians even know about, cities never written about, unknown countries, un-named kings. Ireland, Scotland, England has man-made construction as old as 15 thousand years, who built it? J-M172 seemed to move west with agriculture and tech, the oldest evidence of man in the UK is related to agriculture and roads. I think J-M172 came to the UK when man didn’t need a boat to cross the English channel. J-M172 also came with the Romans but I’m fairly certain it was already present.
Mark Elliott
List of Border Reiver Surnames A list of Border Reiver surnames from both sides of the border include: Anderson, Armstrong, Beattie, Bell, Blackadder, Bromfield, Burns, Carlisle, Carnaby, Carr, Carruthers, Charlton, Collingwood, Cranston, Craw, Croser, Crozier, Curwen,Dacre, Davison, Dixon, Dodd, Douglas, Dunn, Elliot, Fenwick, Forster, Gilchrist, Glendenning, Graham, Gray, Hall, Harden, Hedley, Henderson, Heron, Hetherington, Hodgson, Hume, Hunter, Irvine, Jamieson, Jardine, Johnstone, Kerr, Laidlaw, Latimer, Little, Lowther, Maxwell, Medford, Middlemass, Milburn, Mitford, Moffat, Musgrave, Nixon, Noble, Ogle, Oliver, Potts, Pringle, Radcliffe, Reed, Ridley, Robson, Routledge, Rowell, Rutherford, Salkeld, Scott, Selby, Shaftoe, Simpson, Stamper, Stapleton, Stokoe, Storey, Tailor, Tait, Thompson, Thomson, Trotter, Turnbull, Turner, Wake, Wilkinson, Wilson, Witherington, Yarrow, Young. https://englandsnortheast.co.uk/border-reivers/
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James Sprunger has a question!“What is the next step to clarify ancestry if you have no Y-25 or Y-37 matches? Are there SNP tests that will help? ”
Mark Elliott
Sprunger surname seems to be concentrate in the Berner Jura District, Switzerland https://forebears.io/surnames/sprunger May want to look at some of your 12 marker exact matches and see if the come from Switzerland, or check with Google Maps to see whether they are place names out of Switzerland. Note; 107132 Daniel Roll b. 1700 (Bern, Switzerland) and d. aft J-Y12610 28627 Peter Roll b.c.1763 Uetendorf, Bern, Switzerland J-M172 390034 Jean Vidal, b. 1695-1715 Saint-Flour, Auvergne J-SK1313 345028 Ulrich Tüller b. 1619 Bern, Switzerland J-M172 Do you match a Roll, Vidal, or a Tüller. Feel Berne, Switzerland is a good bet for where you are from. Also Sprunger may be spelled Sprünger.
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Mark Elliott
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Little_Klein_Cline_Kline?iframe=ycolorized Jan Van Kort, (‘van kort’ from ‘Little’, which is from ‘Liddel’) The name Little comes from the Liddel Water which is the boundary between England and Scotland and goes in to Liddesdale, dale of the Liddel. Eric Liddell of Scotland 1924 Olympics of ‘Chariots of Fire’, movie would have obtained his name from this region also. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Liddel+Water/@55.1649681,-2.9544687,10.81z/d Actually is a 29th Chief Margaret Eliott of Redheugh; https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Reiver-Trail-Magaret-Eliott-clan-chief.mp4 Jan Van Kort, given the dispersion of J-M172 markers among the Little, what you said makes a lot of sense. Since they were of the region, the obtain their surname in an era a lot of R-L193 Little obtained theirs. Likely in the 14th century John de Liddel then the ‘de’ was dropped it became John Liddel, through phonetic spelling the Liddel evolve into the name of ‘Little’ you find of the region today.
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Glen FosterGood evening – My name is Glen Foster. My family line is Foster/Forster. The family migrated to Pennsylvania in the early 1700s from Northern Ireland and many subsequently moved on to Ohio and then to Iowa and then to other locations in the western US. The family in Ireland seem to be part of the Ulster Scots who originally came from Scotland or from northern England. I am not 100% sure that all of my Foster ancestors came to the US by that route, some may have come from other parts of England. Are there any Fosters in this group? I received my Y111 test result today. My haplogroup is J-M172. Not sure why mine seems short compared to others. Is there something else that needs to be done, or I need to do? Do I need to do special testing for SNPs or is this still being done by FamilyTreeDNA? I ran this on the SNP tracker and it only covers the Paleo era and does not go beyond that. I have seen other go all the way to the Roman or Present era. Thanks for your help! 🙂 Kit No. 919766
5 people like this
Lawrence Stickell
Glen, do you have a tree on Ancestry? Autologous DNA?
Glen Foster
Lawrence – yes I have a tree on Ancestry – GRFoster242; Foster-Cottrell-Harris-Johnson tree,
Glen Foster
Lawrence Stickell – What is your Member Name on Ancestry? I will look you up as well. Thanks Glen
Glen Foster
Lawrence Stickell – what is your ancestry member name and tree name?
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Mark Elliott
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زما You can purchase, mtDNA, but it is only good for exact matches as far as genealogy is concerned. Myself I had one, and no immediate family research with it. If you talk to others you match as you learn the genetics, they will not understand what you are saying. The Hunt(er) is my in-law. https://d3tije9h5o4l4c.cloudfront.net/social-photos/2216763?dpr=2&fit=max&h=319&w=590 related through the Crozier c1541, an the Foster/Forstar, witnessed a deed to land our Clan Elliot, 29th chief lives on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sasine_deed_1484_for_Robert_Elwald_(Elliot),_Redheugh,_Larriston,_Hartsgarth.jpg The people from the Arabic nations are quite supportive of DNA. The two companies, which incorporate one is strong in genealogy, and the other does not seem to know the first thing about it; THE FAMILY KNOWS BEST, and it is a shared experience among family. Both companies seem to be operated by those which think they may be the chosen people, but this group of J-M172 the Simpson, Foster, Hunt and so on, we are kind of not chosen people. Americans which lost their histories on the border of Scotland-England, and that of Ireland-Ulster, but a high proportion of American today. Old guys can get stuck biased on their own concepts in a short time. The Peoples of the British https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/ Isles study by and international group of geneticists, taking auto-somal DNA from rural people of the British Isles, but it did not include surnames, and language other than English in the model. Though I know that the president likes to say he is American, his mother is Gaelic, of not the English language; https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-38648877 likely a lot of Arabs and Iranians have a stronger American history then he. If a model for J-M172 can be made on how to incorporated various languages going from the Middle East to Hadrian’s Wall, it can be model from going from the Middle East to India or Russia for instance. Travel the language and the J-M172 will travel with it.
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان likes this
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Mark Elliott
click right to open image in new tab https://j2-m172.info/links/cultural-history/ Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زما
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Lloyd Hunt
Ok I may have stumbled on a brilliant clue on my J-L70 Hunts. At first when I tested and found that our family tree had many unfortunate non J-L70 Hunts attached. So I backed off connecting all the ancient Hunts ascribed to our family – Sir Turgitus Hunt, But this is all a bit too convenient of course so at this site https://sites.google.com/site/fivegateways/alphabetical-index-h/hunt attributed to Armytage, G. J. (1870) The Visitation of the County of Rutland in the Year 1618-19, Taken by William Camden, Clarenceux King of Arms. London: Harleian Society. So we see below that the Hunt name actually comes in several generations later after de Stoke Now to our friend who earlier posted about the Wake family you will note they are there as well A1. Turgitus. B1. John, son of Turgitus. C1. William de Stoke. D1. Theobaldus de Stoke, Knight. E1. Gilbertus de Stoke, called The Forester, m. Mathilda, daughter and heiress of John Ridol, of Ramesthorpe and Ashley. F1. Thomas, son of Gilbert, m. a daughter of Sir Humphrey Stafford, Knight. F2. Turgitus de Stoke, kn. 20th Edward II, m. Alice, daughter of John Vessy. G1. William de Stoke, Rector of Ashley, called le Hunt, kn. 20 Edward II, m. ? a daughter of John Braybrook, Knight. G2. Henry de Stoke, kn. 10 Edward II, 19 Edward III, m. a daughter of John Bellers. H1. Turgitus le Hunt, m. a daughter of Sir John Wake, Knight. I1. Theobald le Hunt. But here is the actual fascinating part. In trying to deal with the Latin (any Latin scholars here?) I find this…. Panicum turgidum [1] is an old world clumping desert bunchgrass of the genus Panicum. It is a plant of arid regions across Africa and Asia, and has been introduced to other parts of the world…. It is common across the Sahara and Arabia, from Senegal to Pakistan, and known by a number of common names, most widely as Taman, tuman, or thaman in Egypt and Arabia; merkba or markouba in Mauritania and some Saharan Arabics; and afezu in Tamachek.[4] Other common names include guinchi (eastern Sahara) and du-ghasi (Somalia). It grows on sand dunes in hot, dry climates, and will also grow in latosols.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panicum_turgidum So might the Turgitus mean desert which would seem to be absolutely brilliant.
Mark Elliott
“Turgitus le Hunt, m. a daughter of Sir John Wake, Knight.” https://elwald.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Armitage-Hermitage-Y-DNA-linguistics-census.-place-name-map.jpg “Armytage, G. J. (1870)” https://archive.org/details/calendarofdocume02grea/page/298/mode/2up John Wake lands Nov 10, 1300 AD note; The Hermitage Castle was defended by the Elwald (ie Elliot). The ‘Ellot’, were brought down from Angus, after the Declaration of Abroath 1320, which established the lands of the Kingdom of Scotland, and the Hermitage Castle of the Douglas Earls of Angus.
Lloyd Hunt
Very interesting – so you know what my theory is that their may have been a bit of a social milieu among J’s at this time. I believe some Vesseys (variant spelling), Wakes and who knows how many others
Mark Elliott
There is kind of a split in the way the J-M172 comes into the UK, one way is the Aliot of Southern France then becoming ‘Eliot’ southwest England, the Britons another way is Anglo for south Denmark-north Germany ‘Elwald’ into East Anglia. My Y-DNA of a R-P312 splits and travels both directions, and I recognize there at this time was likely some J-M172 in the DNA add-mix.
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Mark Elliott
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/foster?iframe=ycolorized Just picking up that mainly J-M172 (Graham J-M267) among the borderers called Reivers which lived between Kingdoms or Scotland and England. Foster is one of them. Johnstone is a place name from Johnstone, Scotland nearby were Armstrong. In County Fermanagh, Ulster Ireland, Johnston without ‘e’ is 2nd and Armstrong is third in surname size. Foster is a border name and found in Ireland. Foster in County Fermanagh, Ulster, Ireland among the 1. Maguire, 2. Johnston, 3. Armstrong, 4. McManus, and 5. Elliott it is most concentrated.
Glen Foster likes this
Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد زمان
You wrote in Arabic 😁 i wish Ahmed Al Haddad will help.
Glen Foster
Thanks again! 🙂
Lloyd Hunt
There was a theory that the original Foster Foerster was a in fact a forester. As an aside obviously not Y but my family tree – is teaming with the two
Mark Elliott
Lloyd Hunt, Not theory, the name Foster, Forrest is occupational, meaning Forester, my early name Elwald part stems from the German ‘wald’, meaning Forest. It strongly relates to Hunt(er), in arms are utilize the ‘hunting horn’. https://gorrenberry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/elk-head-and-antlers-Elwald-Hunters-and-Foresters-hunting-horn.jpg note; The ‘Horn of Ulf’, is kept in York. https://archive.org/details/chroniclesofarms00arms/page/n13/mode/2up
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Mark Elliott
https://named.publicprofiler.org/ https://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Richter Because J-M172 DNA has been around a long time, it seems to be among other Y-DNA groupings in migration, this is a example of a block group which are related. Most of Germany, most likely Saxony, with the name Richter occupational for judge. The Carson because closeness of Y-DNA is related, like from Anglo-Saxon migration into England then out at Ulster, Ireland. It seems like a lot of the J-M172 are of the borders and migrated so. To block out name sets with this diverse group, it takes a knowledge of the language of these particular groups, which I do not have but hopefully others can blog out Y-DNA of family groupings they would have a knowledge of. This is a community south of where I live called Zuñi, which has been here before Europeans, and were attacked by Coronado in 1540. Have a Speckle Egg story, about two groups picking from two eggs, and the Zuñi choosing first the speckle one they ended up with crow, and stayed in their region at Zuñi, the other ended up with parrot and went south. Zuñi of the Q-DNA which went into South America. If the people of Zuñi traveled south, the way to find them is to bring a Zuñi and see if they can find people speaking a similar language. DNA travels with language. This group has many people of many languages which could help travel the language and the surnames, to find the migrations of the J-M172 DNA.
Glen Foster likes this
Glen Foster
My wife’s grandmother was a Carson. So her location in the Cavan/Ulster matches my wife’s mother and father (McManus/Leonard). location Map matches our records and knowledge – https://named.publicprofiler.org/ . Another puzzle piece.
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Mark Elliott
https://forebears.io/surnames/hayes http://www.jmhartley.com/HBlog/category/heading/ydna/ There are names which migrate to Hardrian’s Wall which carry the J-M172, though they may be written in various languages, the phonetics sound could likely show similarities. The above though for the rare R-P312 in my region which I’m of can be applied to the rare J-M172 in the region also. The family name which was used in the above in Lentz, the name from the Middle East is Hayes, and the matching are shown in the charts. It helps to have Amer عامر أحمد محمد علي محمد in the group because he knows both the Arabic, and the English, he should be able to recognize surname similarities, though the patterns in which they are used; a different the elements should show similarities. After all he knows I can’t handle the Arabic. Hay in Arabic القش straw. Though https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/ is an excellent genetic project, done by an international staff, utilizing auto-somal regional DNA, it did not have to contend with language, because it only dealt with the DNA, not the surname.
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Mark Elliott
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,_Redheugh,_Larriston,_Hartsgarth.jpg){kind=link}
Jan Van Kort has a question!“where do I find the glossary of terms used? ”
Phillip Hunt
Jan – go to HOME, bottom of page, LEARNING CENTER, then GLOSSARY
Jan Van Kort
thank you
Garrett Hellenthal – The Genetic History of the United Kingdom: the POBI project Jun 9, 2015
Garrett presents results from the People of the British Isles (POBI) project, an exploration of the fine-scale genetic architecture of the United Kingdom. Using the DNA of individuals sampled across England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, Garrett illustrates the striking correlation between an individual’s genetics and their geographic origins. Furthermore, by comparing the DNA of UK individuals to that of individuals sampled from continental Europe, we identify clear differences in ancestry among different geographic regions of the UK, reflecting the genetic imprint of the Anglo-Saxon and Norwegian Viking migrations from several centuries ago.
Garrett has a PhD in Statistics
https://www.peopleofthebritishisles.org/
International staff, utilizing proper regional sampling procedures over generations, with surname exclusion, makes this a highly accurate study useful to people of applied location DNA for years to come.
surname HELLENTHAL;
Uncovering our roots By JEWISH STANDARD December 26, 2008
https://jewishstandard.timesofisrael.com/uncovering-our-roots/
The wedding of Walter and Carola Heuman Fromm on Aug. 24, 1930, in Euskirchen, Germany. Members of both families attended. Courtesy egon fromm
It started as a summer vacation in 1973, a roots trip for us to the town of Hellenthal, Germany,….
German Ex-mayor Sentenced for Burning Down a Synagogue …www.jta.org › 1952/07/09 › archive ›
Wilhelm Fischer, former mayor of Hellenthal, a small town near Aschen, Artur Schoeller and Edmund Gottwald were tried here on charges of participating in the …
https://www.jta.org/1952/07/09/archive/german-ex-mayor-sentenced-for-burning-down-a-synagogue
4/27/2020 MSE
The Quakers in Barbados – The untold story – BajanThings
FTDNA Greenspan – Elwald
Daniel Elliot (1637–1704) • FamilySearch
The book of Scots-Irish family names – FamilySearch
Daniel Elliot (1637–1704) FamilySearch
https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/LTWJ-FQQ/daniel-elliot-1637-1704
Use to using a different format, but the above is and example of lands, including an insert-map showing Braidlee, from Anglo-Saxon Broadlee, meaning a valley broad on the leeward side. Wolflee also Anglo-Saxon, meaning the valley of the wolf. Yes, there were wolfs in the region. They introduced them around here and the Navajo grandmas shoot them for going after their sheep. Put chief Margaret Eliott raised in Stobs, but of Redheugh, in the same category if Scotland decides to reintroduce wolfs. Her husband seems to have a Polish wolfish type surname.
Though I may observe him, do not want to make any distinctive moves. Past British Army MI6 you know, but on the same family side.
May have bumped elbows on an Armstrong in the Aberdeenshire region. Finding that Eliott-Elliot may have land connection with Douglas-In-graham in region. Those Graham they are English an seem to not want to claim Armstrong-Elliot as family. Maybe the Nixon and Crozier seem to have English connections they find more acceptable.
Kind of like staying in the Forest with the Fosters, they are English and seem to be not offended to be related to Armstrong and Elliot, from the English side like those Grahams. It is the Hunter and wolf, for they are predators of the elk-moose, I must watch out for.
The Crozier seem to be Saxon along with the Thorleehope (valley of Thor, god of lightning Thunder Valley). A couple of Crozier seem to match their Y-DNA and are not R-L193. It seem like if you are not R-L192 and are R-U106, Anglo-Saxon they like to silence and exterminate you. Mark Stephen Elliott
Daniel as a forename is not popular in Scotland. Many great in accordance with Douglas Scott of BC, Canada, Dand Ellot was banished from both Kingdoms in 1607, then shows up as Daniel Elliott, in Tullykelter, Co. Fermanagh, Ireland, as part of the Somerville Estate in-law to the Monea Hamilton. Names Somerville, and Ellott show up in 1610 Tyrone Muster, and a generation later in the Co. Fermanagh, Muster. James Somerville shows up in bother musters. 1610 James Somerville had son 1630 Somerville. Scots alias nickname for Andrew is Dand, Irish English it becomes Daniel from surname of Daniel-M’Daniel it may be obtained. Ellot family of Tullykelter were Anglican but nomally Catholic, from forenames show this, even the name in 1610 Ulster Muster of Co. Fermanagh, Marke Ellot shows this. Before 1650 the Scots used Ellot not Elliot with the Norman ‘i’. Daniel Elliott name in 1692 Salem Trials was spelled Elot, the ‘i’ was added likely because of a John Eliot (Eliot Hall Harvard) which came over on the Mayflower. Had a relative to a George Soul who’s ancestor those Armstrong may have melted in lead at Ninestanerig, 9 stone ridge. Did not seem to care much for this Soulis either. The Douglas and Armstrong seem to like, and this Douglas Scott who is from BC, Canada is active with the Hoik-Hawick Archaeological Society, and has this younger brother who is active also, and sings Scottish Ballads with this group called Scocha (Scott-Chapman), do not know being an elk-moose if I care for his middle name of Hunter, though I think he also is weary of the hunter.
A Hawick Word Book Douglas Scott.pdf (ubc.ca)
YORKSHIRE East Riding BRIGHAMS
The history of the Brigham family; a record of several thousand descendants of Thomas Brigham the emigrant, 1603-1653 : Brigham, Willard Irving Tyler, 1859-1904 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
History students’ Pammel Court exhibition brings back memories – Link MagazineLink Magazine (iastate.edu)
Три из пяти женщин, организовавших съезд в Сенака-Фолс, были квакерами. Будьте счастливы, эти дамы не верят в крещение.
Прилежные навыки этих мормонских бабушек Я не хочу ошибаться, потому что мои генеалогические исследования могут навлечь на меня массу неприятностей. Как вы думаете, почему Юта и Вайоминг заняли первое место в голосовании среди женщин. Мы, жители Запада, в которых есть буква «Y», не хотим иметь проблем с теми, у кого ее нет.
Хорошие квакеры подобны евреям, которые не крестят. Представьте себе все проблемы, которые у меня могли быть с женщинами-квакерами.
Квакерские дамы самые большие повстанцы.
May consider other spellings for Crozier.
First Name Surname Barony/Lands Landlord/Estate County
John Croser Magherboy G. Hume Fermanagh
George Courser Magherbuy Sir W. Cole Fermanagh
William Grocer Magherbuy Sir W. Cole Fermanagh
William Grocer Dungannon Captain A. Sanderson Tyrone
http://www.therjhuntercollection.com/resources/muster-rolls-c-1630/search-muster-rolls/
ДНК-генеалогия Бригама «Это место» › Бригам-это-место-гене…
Я чувствую, что основатель Family Tree DNA может быть одним из тех евреев Айвенго. Ведь он назвал своего сына Эллиот Дэниел, а Скотт вместе с Монтгомери…
Tullykelter Castle – Wikipedia
100th (gallupintertribalceremonial.com)