Gilbert of Stobs

In chasing my Y-DNA/chromosomes passed by father to son, of shared characteristics of the father, decide, since carried those chromosomal characteristics of the father’s line unbroken, would in the research concentrate searching from son to father, which I refer to as the father’s father.

Dad working as a watershed planning engineer, had a knowledge of land passed to son, and excellent in the area of genealogical research previous to Y-DNA probability. It is felt since Y-DNA probability is used in genealogical research, probability is a tool I could used.

For instance, if ten generations named their first son Robert Elwald, what would the probability of the first son being named Robert Elwald in the next generation if they have a son? How would this compare to the probabilities of today’s genealogical Y-DNA researchers? Can this type of probability be excluded in a properly applied mathematical world?

Seems like a lot of people have there own interpretation of results. Kind of reminds me of the time many great grand father, brought forth in testimony, with some highly educated and scientific people of Harvard, and concept that the accusers where doing it for sport, was brought forth by granddad. In 1692 these highly educated Harvard grads hung witches.

Today based on probability higher than accuracy of what is given by utilizing, documentation, it can be said that a Reverend Thomas Allen, brother to Capt John Allen, returned Thomas with half the estate of John Harvard to England ca 1650, and took half of John Harvard’s estate with him, from my view point wished he took the whole estate. Because, I introduced the above the Puritanically acting Harvard like my forefather which I share Y-Chromosomes with which they did not accept the concept the accusers were doing it for sport, they will not accept that Reverent Thomas Allen, which married the widow of John Harvard return to England on his brother’s Captain John Allen’s ship. This shows the historical knowledge that Harvard has on it’s own history.

So searching the father’s father, doing it as a self search and like Harvard, has shown they do not believe in people carrying my Y-Chromosomes, do not think others will accept my concepts.

 

Sometimes stories are passed for generations, like the one of the Fairy Bear. Though people will put it down, I am more concern to the way it migrated and the family names used.

Armstrong-Fairy-Bear-story-1

Migrating-with-the-Fairy-Bear

The family seem to be referred to as elk (moose);]

df-elk

Which is a marsh dweller;

elg-elk-moose-Kerr

RP Elliott (of same Y-DNA cluster) has done a lot of Y-DNA research and this is what he has come up with;

Fairy-Bear-R-P-Elliott

He brings up the Fairy Bear story, and a person from Poland and Elglet, where “elg” is Danish for elk (moose).

Y-DNA-name-distances1

Given;

Kerr Kjrr marsh dweller

Given the Kerr and the elk (moose) are marsh dwellers, and Elliot/Kerr proximity on Scottish Borders, and closeness in my cluster to Kerr, with Kerr and my Elliot showing similar characteristics.

Given my R-U106 seem to becoming from where those elk (moose) are trying to get to in Germany, being twice as bull headed and half as smart can figure out being referred to as Elchwald, elk (moose) of the woods/forest, and the suffix -wald in naming forest in the region the elk are going to, can figure that is where I am heading with my ancestral research.

But first to Scotland;

Gilbert a name unliked;

Captain Francis Champernown wanted his grandson to have the name Gilbert;

Champernown Gilbert Humphrey

Because he was first cousin to Sir Humphrey Gilbert. The father, likely of a Robert Elliot, good chance he lost first wife, and the Champernown family children less wanted a son.

Robert is felt of Scotland, and Champernown was likely named Gilbert, but because Gilbert was no a good name, Champernown was the accepted name;

Champernown named likely Gilbert

In the Ulster muster 1630 though William, Robert and other  Ellot names are accepted in the Ulster-Scottish lease land Gilbert was not an accepted name.

Arthur Eliott former Elliot Clan Chief, no sons, daughter Margaret following has done excellent research on Gilbert;

Maggie Fendy

Though some people will say he is incorrect, research genealogists like myself depend on the research before.  Arthur Eliott depended highly on the research of his mother, and George Francis, Scott Elliott, and I depend on the research of my father who depended on his mother, and the research of Arhur Eliott who has done a lot to set up the Clan Elliot Society.

Arthur as I feel correctly has Gilbert, not Sir Gilbert being the first Gilbert to acquire the land;

Redheugh Hartsgarth tree

 

Where as Arthur feels Gavin is the step-father of Gilbert and I concur, it seems that GFS Elliot thinks Gavin is the father.

Gavin-and-Gilbert-of-Stobs

Some researchers like to indicate records were lost in Stob’s fire of 1720, so the following are records from previous to fire, which are records these individuals must be looking for, which states; Gibbie of Golden Garters is the third son of Robert 15. Gibbie has son first son William, and first son William hangs self and has first son Sir Gilbert, sometimes mixed up with Gibbie his grandfather as Gibbie of Golden Garters which married the cousin to Buccleuch and not Sir Gilbert his grandson.  MSE   11/22/2015

Robert-15th-father-Gilber-of-Stobs

So the line from father to first son goes Gilbert to William to Sir Gilbert, which is felt to be correct.

Mary Scott Flower of Yarrow

Mary Scott Yarrow mother of Margaret Scott Maggie Fendy

Here is another place where researchers make errors;

Mary Scott, wife to Walter Scott of Harden is “Flower of Yarrow”, not her daughter Margaret Scott, known as Maggie Fendy who with Gilbert had six children and said to have quite a dowry;

Maggie Fendy dowry

It should be noted that today’s Clan Elliot chief Margaret Eliott, does not like to be called Maggie.

Not against wind farms, just do not think they should impinge upon an historical antiquity as The Hermitage Castle.  Do not believe border feuding should determine the out come.

Buccleuch and Cessford with Redheugh at it again.

Allowing the power of corporate heads to utilize their positions to bring about a new order in border feuds which supersedes, cultural norms of aristocratic protection of historical antiquities, will destroy what ever corrective history the borders may have.

Buccleuch over the years has been difficult to deal with. Today at least he is married to a Kerr.

Robert Ellot son Robert

 

Ellot of Liddesdale, Robert, William and Gilbert brothers

Jean Scott first marriage was to Robert Ellot 15th Chief of Clan Elliot, then has sons Robert 16th William of Lariston/Hartsgarth, then Gilbert of Stobs.

Gavin Ellot of Stobs

Gawen Ellot of Stobs daughter Jean married Rutherford then Wm Elliot

The land Gavin acquired of Stobs;

Glad Stobs land Gavin

Where the land first went;

William Ellot inherits William Elliot land of Horsleyhill

William the son of William inheriting

 

Horsliehill-1574-Cavers-crest-233x300

Above Horsleyhill Crest differs from Redheugh, and is felt to be of Gorrenberry/Horsleyhill, not Lariston. The Willaim of Lariston is younger to Robert and older to Gilbert, and becomes in/of Hartsgarth, which would use the same seal as Redhuegh;

S.-Gilberti-Ellot-de-Horslihill-seal-crest1

Though it does not read of Stobs, and is said to read of Horslihill, it could read of Hartsgarth. The above seal is the Redheugh seal with an elwand on the bend.

1607 Jeanna Rutherfurd (given name likely second husband, first daughter of Gavin named after mother), sponser (husband) William Ellot . Correction, brought to may attention online image que 8/14/2015;

Gavin-of-Stobs correction

Correction given above reference;

Gavin Elliot married Jean Scott sister to Buccleuch 1607 who had daughter probably name Jean who married Thomas Rutherford of Edgerston, and had a daughter named Jean which married William Elliot of Lariston son of Robert of Redheugh, living in Lariston nearer to a Maggie Kidd of Slaughtree (willow tree).

Crozier and Ellot in Upper Liddesdale Blaeu 1654 map

Note; how close Martin Ellot’s brother to Redheugh line, is near Robert of Redheugh, living in Over or Nether Laristown, (Lariston).

Crozier, Ellot, Larriston, Saughtree land of Megg Kiidd

 

Riccarton contour info map

1607 Dorothia Ellot, second daughter of Gavin

William Elwald Gilbert's older brother.

1619 Robert inherited Redheugh;

Robert son of Robert inheriting

1621 Robert inherited part of Gavin estate being son of his wife Jean Scott.

1621 Dorathia married with sponser (husband) George Halyburton.

1621 Ester third daughter of Gavin married to Gilbert Ker.

Robert heir

Chief of the Elwood/Elliot lived in Cariston/Lariston;

1592 Robert Ellot Ellwood chief in Lariston

 

Map of 1590 does not show a Redhuegh, buts shows a Robert of Lariston, and a Hartsgarth.

Robert is of Lariston in 1590

There is no ground for doubting that Gilbert Elliot’s father is and Elliot of Lariston, which above would be a Robert of Redheugh living in Lariston, and mother a Scott of Buccleuch which would be Jean Scott, sister to Buccleuch.

Wm of in Hartsgarth (1)

Wm of in Hartsgarth (2)

Age wise the William of Hartsgarth not nephew would be of same generations as Jean Rutherford. Correction 8/14/2015; is daughter of probably Jean Ellot therefore Jean Rutherford is a younger generation, which is quite posible.

Meg-Helen-Kidd-1

Since Robert of Redheugh is residing Lariston, his second son William of Lariston, then then after moving to tower built for Robert’s mistress Megg Kidd, of Hartsgarth, William, Megg Kidd’s first son would become William of Hartsgarth, and her second son Gilbert would not receive the Hartsgarth estate.

Meg-Helen-Kidd-2

Margaret of Megg Kidd, lived at Slaughtree, on the northside of the Liddel a bit up river where Robert of Redheugh, residing in Lariston. Liddell Water, was across from old established Elwald/Ellot (Elliot) land known by the Scandinavian name; Thors-lee-hope, where Thor is a pre-Christian Scandinavian god. . Margaret; Megg Kidd moved onto Hartsgarth, a tower built by Robert of Redheugh, living at Lariston. Hartsgarth tower was south of Hermitage, and Gorrenberry west of Hermitage, all near the Liddel Water, along Thief Road/Maidenway.

Meg-Helen-Kidd-3

Stobs was purchased by Gavin, for his grandson the son of Gilbert by name William. Normally Gilbert would name his first son Gilbert, but this time it became William after his older brother, and also the William of Gorrenberry/Horsleyhill line.

Meg-Helen-Kidd-41

Tree;

Robert Redheugh William Hartsgarth Gilbert

William of Hartsgarth

Gilbert of Horsley and Stobs;

Gilbert of Horsliehill and Stobs

Gilbert obtained land from the daughters of Gavin of Horsleyhill;

Gilbert Ellot of Stobs; Burke's

Gilbert likely Dand’s Gib, were Dand (Andrew) is the nephew and uncle to Gilbert;

Dandie of Branxholm

Dand-Gib-Andrew

Gib-Ellot-Dandis-Gib

 

The land of the Ellot of Gorrenberry, which Clementis Hob lived on was acquired along with nearby Braidlee,

Pre-Union-land-Elwald-Ellot1

 

the combined estate became the Gorrenberry estate, of John Scott related to Buccleuch.

Cannobie-Gorrenberry-Mangerton-Buccleuch-lands.

The Ellot of Gorrenberry, like my great grandfather’s family of Dand Ellot/Daniel Elliot second son of Clementis Hob (Robert Ellot, nephew of Clement Crosar) living with his uncle Archie Keen, Archibald Ellot the wise.

Robert Elliot Buccleuch

Given above after Dand Ellot was abolished from both kingdoms in 1608, Gilbert of Stobs family became chief of the Clan Elliot, and noted traitor to those who moved on to the Ulster, Plantation, as shown by on name of Gilbert of Londonderry, of the English settlement in the Ulster muster rolls of  1630.

Gavin-of-Stobs-Marion-Hamilton-of-Redheugh

Chieftain-changes-to-Gilbert-Willaim-Gilbert-of-Stobs-and-Redheugh

Robin-Eliott-Ellot-Stobs-Sweet-Milk

Scotts-of-Buccleuch-3

Interesting; Buccleuch, took over the land of the Ellot around 1600, by killing them off, or causing deportation, and making the Ellot family look evil, like my many great Clementis Hobs, in the Thieves of Liddesdale. After banishment from both kingdoms takes the land of Gorenberry, and combines it with land of Braidlie acquired from Bothwell, making it a Gorrenberry estate and passing on to relative John Scott. Gilbert Ellot/Eliott of Stobs because he is a traitor to the Redheugh, family becomes chief of Clan Elliot, because Buccleuch gets along with Gilbert, not Robert.

  After the ‘pacification’ of the Scottish Borders in the decade following 1603. Elliots, Armstrongs, and Johnstons were hanged, outlawed and banished, and many came to Ulster during 1609 Plantation. They settled particularly in Fermanagh where they seem to have formed a cohesive group, strong enough to ride out the 1641 rising. These three names are now among the first five in the country.

   During these upheavals the lands of the Elliots of Redheugh passed to important branch of the family was formed at the end of the seventeenth century by Gilbert Elliot, a descendant of a branch of the Stobs family.

The book of ULSTER SURNAMES by Robert Bell, Pub; The Blackstaff Press 1988

 

Least I am sticking with some very good people who like to pitch-in to get things done; THE UK ARMSTRONG.

Mark S. Elliott

 http://www.therjhuntercollection.com/resources/muster-rolls-c-1630/search-muster-rolls/

 

Ellot 1630 Ulster muster (1) Ellot 1630 Ulster muster (2) Ellot 1630 Ulster muster (3)

A number of each Robert, John, William, Archibald, Gawen, and Andrew but only one Gilbert of Londonderry an England, Ulster settlement, not border Scots like the Ulster border county of Fermanagh. Though Gilbert of Stobs became chief, no Scottish border to Ulster border Scot used the name Gilbert in 1630.

Mark S. Elliott 8/8/2015

Slaughter of Hassidene (Hassendean);

Horseleyhill-Ellot-tree-Dand-Andrew2

 

William Elwald of Gorrenberry, was one of the first with landholders, Scot of Edschaw, son of Buccleuch, and Ker of Cessford (Roxburghe), to see that Robert Elwald becomes of Redheugh, Lariston and Hartsgarth with other lands.

Robert-William-John-Elwald-of-Redheugh

William Elwald of Gorrenberry and it is felt brother Robert receiving lands of Gorrenberry rode under the stag’s head of King/St Elwald, bones in Hexam Abbey. After receiving these lands the Robert Elwald of Redheugh the tenth Chief line until Gilbert of Stobs, created a shield with and elwand on the bend, and at times the Elwald were referred to as Elwand, meaning a people who do things by measurement, since and Elwand is the Edinburgh standard of length in the 16th century.

Horsleyhill

Archibald (Archie Kene) son to Gavin the Baillie to Bothwell lived. They said he was to young to be decapitated. The older brother to Gilbert; William Ellot bastard son to the deceased Robert of Redheugh, was decapitated.  Gilbert joined Buccleuch later on, but named his first son William, it is felt in remembrance of his older brother. Son of Gilbert and Margaret Fendy, the grandson in which Gavin acquired Stobs for from the Gladstanis, estate.

Robert Tree extra

Slaughter of Hassidene (1) Slaughter of Hassidene (2)

 

Mark S. Elliott  8/10/2015

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