Genealogy Geographic Surname DNA Elliot

DNA U106, Proto-Germanic Migration.

My Y-DNA SNP FTDNA#101829, Yseq#4069 M269>U106>S12025>FGC12040>S16361>A6722 If you could use above format, it may help.

Proto-Germanic R-U106 haplogroup DNA Elwald-Elliot

Norman Barony Naming Convention Correlating Y-DNA Used to Find Pre-Surname Northumbria-East Anglia Entry Location.

A barony naming convention would explain why the Normans called it the Battle of Hastings instead of naming it for the battlefield. The battle took place in the Rape (barony) of Hastings on land that was subject to Hastings’ jurisdiction. The Saxons called it the Battle of Senlac according to Orderic Vitalis, after the local name of the place. Senlac means “sandy loch” and would fit the wide, sandy Brede Valley flood plain through which the estuarine Brede River meandered.

http://carmenandconquest.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-clerical-data-standard-suggested-by.html

Wm de Aliot is where the Eliot name is of southern most England; St German/Port Eliot is an example of this convention.

In 123o there are Elwold in Rye/Rya, near where The Battle of Hastings took place.

Ingewerd-Elwold-Elwald-of-Rye

John-Elwold-Elwald-of-Rya-Rye

 

Location of Medieval Rye-Rya;

Location of Medieval Rye-Rya

Number of Elliot Families Distribution 1891 Census Data;

map; ancestry.com

England-1891

 

Scandinavians were apart of The Battle of Hastings (Rye/Rya), and the Battle of Stamford Bridge near York, 1066, which leads me to believe my Y-DNA, came into the region about this time.

Norman Barony Naming Convention is being used to find the locality in where my Y-DNA line arrives in the British Isles.

 Son of  Loren Spencer Elliott; Mark Stephen Elliott;

Of Daniel Group (Gorrenberry) of Germany;

Basic genealogy done by father Loren S. ;

genealogy by dad; Loren S

 

Log into Family Tree DNA and click on advanced matches;

Family Tree DNA adv matching 11-9-2014

For basic Y-DNA matches of the Daniel Elliott Grouping, named after Daniel Elliot which made testimony for the Salem Witch Trials 1692.

The following contain M269 which becomes U106 and L21

Dan Group; U106 Proto-Germanic

James D. Watson Craig Venter respectively Scottish and German

 

charts; familytreedna.com

Border-Reivers-matches-for-M-S-Elliott-11-9-20141

First check Y-DNA12 only, and leave name blank.

Y-DNA12 with last name blank

 

Note which surnames are utilized the most;

Example for myself given 12 markers;

12 markers M S Elliott 11-9-2014 Family Tree DNA

Why do I match men with different surnames?

There are two reasons you may have a Y-DNA match with someone with a different surname.

It may be that your connection is from a time before surnames were in common use. This is especially likely for groups where surnames were often not adopted until the most recent 100 to 200 years, for example, Scandinavians and Jewish populations.

Another reason for surnames not to match is that there has been a surname change in genealogical times. That could be in either your match’s or your own line.

The main place that you will see matches with many different surnames is the Y-DNA12 Marker Matches section. The time to a common ancestor for these matches may extend beyond genealogical records and the adoption of surnames.

If you continue to match others outside your surname at the Y-DNA37, Y-DNA67, and Y-DNA111 marker level, then there is likely to have been a surname change within the genealogical time-frame. Common causes for this include deliberate name changes and adoptions. For those matches at a higher number of markers (Y-DNA37, Y-DNA67, and Y-DNA111), contacting your matches is the best way to learn more.
https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/user-guide/y-dna-myftdna/y-matches-page/

 Names came out Cave, Dennis, Grisham, and Scarborough. 

Cave M269;

Cave 22 Y-DNA R-M269 11-9-2014

 

For Cave the count is 22, twelve marker exact matches.

Dennis U106;

Dennis FTDNA results  matching; Dennis Group 01

Dennis 10 8-R-U106 11-9-2014

 

Cave has also French origins so an 1881 distribution map is not shown.

For Dennis the count is 10, twelve marker exact matches. 

The surname Dennis, unlike the surnames Gresham, Cave, and Scarborough does not have geographic locality, but the surname distribution map shows Dennis covers these or near regions of the locations of Gresham, Cave, and Scarborough;

Dennis surname distribution map 1881

http://named.publicprofiler.org/

Dennis surname distribution for Anglia-Lincolnshire, Yorkshire region seems to correlate well with the localities of Scandinavian place names. added 6/26/2017

Grisham, Gresham, Grissom L21;

For Gresham the count is 7, twelve marker exact matches.

Gresham-7-6-R-L211

 

For Grisham the count is 4, twelve marker exact matches.

Gresham 7 6-R-L21

 

Gresham surname distribution 1881

The locality of the Gresham in 1881 did not migrate far in the UK from it’s origins of Gresham.

Grissom 7 4-M269 11-9-2014

For Grissom the count is 7, twelve marker exact matches.

4+7+7=18 total hits for Grisham variants.

Scarborough U106;

Scarborough 8 5-R-U106 11-9-2014

For Scarborough the count is 8, twelve marker exact matches.

Scarborough suname distribution 1881

The UK Scarborough in 1881 have not migrated far from it’s origins of Scarborough.

Cave 22, Dennis 10, Grisham variants 18, and Scarborough 8.

Updated Data 2/1/2017 MSE

Gresham+Grisham+Grissom=28 estimated weighted to Cave as 24

Gresham-Grisham-Grissom FTDNA results.

Cave is 23

Scarborough is 8 but estimated weighting to Cave is 12

Scarborough FTDNA results

Location map on North Sea;

2/2/2017 MSE

Proto-Germanic R-U106 haplogroup DNA Elwald-Elliot

 

U106 P311 M269 grouping

Scarborough (U106) North Yorkshire is like my surname Elliott goes north, and it’s geograpic location is the furthest north,  N&S Cave (M268) East Riding, Yorkshire could go anywhere the three geographic localities are but is in the center,  Gresham (L21) Norfolk, origins.

 

saxmap

It should be noted to have these sizable numbers in geographic name groups, indicates all names are likely beyond applied surnames, and the ones which are mapped, names which are used, their families are likely from the corresponding given localities, and this information would be of value to those names listed knowing the their origins is from and geographic-surname; Norman barony location, which is now a town or city.

Different surnames are likely beyond genealogical data, and previous to surname adoption.

different surnames

M Elliott     11/9/2014

Personal to surname evolution corresponding to my Y-DNA grouping.

U106 Y-DNA along with name changes personal then surname

pre El- sufix -wald migration

 

Though the map above seems to weight towards Frisia, excellent calculations by Robert P. Elliott  of my Y-DNA  group show that Germany by far holds the minimum.

 Regions of likelihood for people carrying Y-DNA of Daniel Elliot who testified in Salem to be from;

DNA-distance-steps-by-RP

 

Thank you, Robert P. Elliott for more information, though chose to alter name of cluster to the Dan Cluster, feel the name is more extensive and takes away from the witch trials Daniel.   Dan is a nickname for Daniel, and an alias for Andrew which it is felt the name evolved from.

The name Andrew Elwald appears as a witness when Robert Elwald receives land of Redheugh and Lariston.  Most used name by the Elliott and Armstrong families is John, and a John Elwald was rector of St Andrews University 1418, and became rector of Kirkandrews (kirk; church) in the region of the debatable lands in 1423. It is the cross of St Andrews on the Scottish flag, and St Andrews is a Scandinavian saint mentored by St John, where forms of Johnson, and Anderson are popular Scandinavian names.

Though it is feel this is Robert’s (Bob’s) choice, I would rather call it after Andrew (Dan), and Daniel (Dan) the Dan Cluster.

Dan Cluster DNA U106 S12025

Fairy-Bear-R-P-Elliott

 

Robertson; son of Robert (Scandinavian convention), Gordon, and Alexander Gordon on ship with Daniel Elliot to the American Plantation ca 1652,  Osborne one of my Quaker lines out of North Carolina, a Sarah Osborne, of of the earlier witches executed in Salem, likely of the Osborne; Beverly Quaker furniture makers, also a Borne/Osborne name associated with the Fairbairn/Armstrong Clans.

Robert Elwald of Remington 1305 father Alan pledge of Jarum

Allen/Alan; Alan a surname found in Liddesdale in 1376 along with Alexandir Armystrand. Alanus Elfwoldus a Latin form of Alan Elwald found in Bec, Norfolk, East Anglia, 1248.  It is felt that and son of Elfwald named Alan likely to Elfwald as a surname then became Alan Elfwald.  In the same pattern for example a John the son of this same Alan could have became John Alan, and later John Allen.

As one can see that ca 1305, Robert Elwald of Rimington, Lancashire is the son of Alan, with a pledge Francis de (of) Jarum, the old Anglo-Saxon community of Jarrow.

An previous forming of the surname Alan Elfwald is likely from Alan son of Elfwald which may have been developing in the Croyland/Crowland region around 1125.

Aldano filio Alfwald Alan son of Elfwald

12-marker exact matches map for MS Elliott

familytreedna.com;

displaced borderers

 

Newer one  6/1/2015;

R-U106 for MSE

 

Elliot surname distribution, shows localities of Briton, France, and Denmark.

Elliot name distributionDNA

 

Viking Expansion from Norway, Sweden, and Denmark.

Scandinavian map Danish Norse

2/1/2015

U106 Proto-Germanic;

U106 proto-germanic

 

Pre-Migration of Pro-Germanic Tribes;

Protp-Germanic, pre-migration period

 

Suffix -wald -walde (forest);

map google-

Sch- -heide -wald Berlin Germany map

Dual localities of entry to the basis of the name Elliot into the British Isles.

Elliot-distribution-Northumbria

Elfwald/Elwald Anglo-Danish, and Wm de Aliot, Breton Eliot a completely different branch of the Elliot line.

Arthur Eliott clan chief and mother’s origins of the name which became Elliot;

Arthur-Eliott-i-insertion1

 Arthur Eliott’s only remaining serious contention of the origins of the border name Elliot;

Only serious contention Arthur Eliott

Branches merged with the inserted “i” about 1650.

 

1 Step in 25 from Rothenburg, Germany d 1514;

Poland-Germany-wald-Y-DNA

2/6/2015

Some of the Indigenous “Celtic” can be referred to as migritory Anglo-Saxon Danish R1b, which migrated around the North Sea and are referred to as North Sea Celtic N.S.C.

Germanic Anglo-Danish Border Reiver

 Distribution of Primary Germanic Dialectical Groups;

Teutonic-Germanic

2/8/2015

Armstrong-Fairbairn, are Elwald correct;

Locality and Correlation of Armstrong to the Dan Group, of Elliott;

Mark Elliott, Lowell Armstrong Y-DNA

 

Ælfwald/Aelfwald, Alfwald, Elwald matches Northumberland Armstrong.

Ælfwald-match-to-an-Northumberland-Armstrong.

Chronicles of the Armstrongs (a collection)
edited by James Lewis Armstrong MD 1902

Chronicles of the Armstrongs (1)

Armstrong-Chronicles-8a

Armstrong-Chronicles-1a-elk-wood

 King Elgwalt, German-Danish;

Elg/elk(moose)

Elgwalt-ElgwaldElgwalt

 

 

Fairy Bear (Fairbair) Migration;

Family seems to be migrating with the legend of the Fairy Bear.

Armstrong-Fairy-Bear-story-1

Migrating-with-the-Fairy-Bear

 

Early Elwald/Elwold East Anglia

Scandinavian Patronymic Naming Convention;

The majority of surnames are derived from the name of a male ancestor. These evolved from pre-existing non-permanent naming customs whereby an individual was identified by reference to a male ancestor or ancestors. Some example are: Bedo ap Batho ap Heylin (Welsh: Bedo, son of Batho, son of Heylin), which would become Bedo Batho; Lars Andersen (Scandianvian), Andrew MacDonald (Scottish: Andrew son of Donald) and Henry fil. Grimbald (English: Henry son of Grimbald). Such names are essentially the name of the father, sometimes with a suffix or prefix to denote the name as a patronym. For example, Armenian patronyms typically end in -ian, Polish patronyms end in -ski and Irish patronyms begin with Fitz-.

Patronymic surnames are indistinguishable from clan surnames, which may be assumed by subjects of a clan leader. http://forebears.io/surnames

Patronymic Surnames dominate Danish naming conventions;

Names such as Anderson; son of Andrew, McDouglas, son of Douglas, and Fitzgerald the son of Gerald, follow this convention, and the Mc, Mac, and the -son, are likely Scandinavian names.

The names beginning with Æ such as Ælfwald is also Scandinavian, because Æ, is Scandinavian Character.

Scandinavians also, like people today one may call some wolf, bear, or elk(moose), in Scandinavian these names would be used as personal names pre-surname adoption and would be; Ulf (wolf), Bjørn (bear), or Elg (elk/moose). Like Ulf the son of Alvald of Suthcreek (Ulf the son of Alwald/Elwald of South Creake, Norfolk, East Anglia 13301340).

Dannish-naming-conventions

 

Location of Alwald/Elwald name variants in East Anglia.

Alanus Elwoldus of Bec 1248

Bec (Norfolk) (Hospital of S. Thomas at Billingford). Wm de Bec

Johannes Eluald John Elwald Ulf of South Creake, Norfolk

Norfolk Suffolk

 

Place-Names of Scandinavian Origins;

Scandinavian place name map

 

Scandinavian-name-mapping-Elwald

Good resource on the origins of the Scottish language showing part of it has a Anglo-Danish-Scandinavian migration from regions of York-Northfolk (northern East Anglia);

DSL
Dictionary of the Scots Language
Dictionar o the Scots Leid

History of Scots to 1700
2. The origins and spread of Scots (CM)

http://www.dsl.ac.uk/about-scots/history-of-scots/origins/

Heading to Germany;

Shows closeness of relation of the Daniel (Dan) Cluster especially to Eliot, Ker, Burn, and Dixon variants, thanks again Robert P. for bringing forth, and graphic popular with the Armstrong-Fairbairn.

Y-DNA-name-distances

elg-elk-moose-Kerr

 

Elliot, Elliott, Armstrong and Fairbairn seem to utilized the same similar forenames;

Elliot-Elliott-Armstrong-and-Fairbairn

 

Two groups which could use support;

Hermitage Action Group

www.hermitage-action-group.com

Hermitage Action Group – Clan Armstrong Trust
www.clanarmstrongtrust.org.uk/articles/hermitage-action-group

revised 2/20/2015

 Bell, Scott & Johnston  U106

Listing of some of the U106 for Bell, Scott and Elliott from Family Tree DNA dot Com. Border Reiver DNA project.
Scott, Bell, Elliott U106 Y-DNA

 

Bell and Scott surname distributions.

Bell surname distribution U106Scott surname distribution UK

 

 

Surname distribution with U106 Y-DNA is indicative the migration of the Scot/Scott and Bell surname and its migration could be from the southeast to the North of Germanic Anglo origins.

 

Johnston surname distribution 1881

Mark S. Elliott   3/4/2015

Now have officially been tested positive for R-U106;

tested positive R-U106

MSE  5/29/2015

The Above Supports;

The Elliot who took on Bothwell
Published Date: 13:13 Monday 06 July 2009 The Southern Reporter
By Walter Elliot

My own theory is that we have been here in the
Northumbrian/ Borders region since Anglo-Saxon settlers
came across from northern Germany in the 5th to 8th
centuries. I base this on the fact that most of the 36 early
ways of spelling the name are Anglo-Saxon — Aelwold,
Ellwald, Elaund, Elwaird etc. The name continued written as
‘Elwalde’ with its variations into the 1500s when it became
Elyot, Eliot and Ellote. There are no recognisable Gaelic
spellings and only one Dalliot. I rest my case, but everybody
will continue to believe as they wish anyway.

 

 

James V. Elliott of Border Reiver DNA has been involved in this excellent report;

A1 Clade Report

A1 Clade Elliot surname origins

Elwald Ellwood Ellot Elliot migration

MSE 8/5/2015

1. Alan Elfwald of Norfolk, E Anglia ca 1250 (near Gresham)
2. Robert Elwald of Norfolk/Rimington, Lancashire.
3. Robert 2
4. Robert 3
5. Robert 4
6. Robert 5
7. Robert 6
8. Robert 7
9. Robert 8
10. Robert 9
11. William Elwald of Gorrenberry
12. Robert Elwald (Archeis Hob) of Gorrenberry (adopted by uncle Archibald)
13. Andrew (Dand the Cowie) Elwald of Horsleyhill
14. Robert Elwald of Stobs/Gorrenberry (Clementis Hobs)
15. Dan-Daniel Ellot/Elliot/Elliott of Scotland/Tullykelter Fermanagh
16. Robert Ellot Tullykelter
17. Daniel Ellot/Elliot of Ulster/Massachusetts
18. Daniel Elliot Salem Trials
19. Johnathan Sr
20. Johnathan Jr
21. John
22. Comfort
23. Sherburn Amando
24. Amando Wilcox
25. Mark
26. Loren Spencer
27. Mark S. Elliott

Mark Elliott   the 27th generation (2015-1250)/26 is about 30 years per generation.

https://www.familytreedna.com/faq-markers.aspx

https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/user-guide/y-dna-myftdna/y-matches-page/
“Why do I match men with different surnames?
There are two reasons you may have a Y-DNA match with someone with a different surname. It may be that your connection is from a time before surnames were in common use. This is especially likely for groups where surnames were often not adopted until the most recent 100 to 200 years, for example, Scandinavians and Jewish populations. Another reason for surnames not to match is that there has been a surname change in genealogical times. That could be in either your match’s or your own line.
The main place that you will see matches with many different surnames is the Y-DNA12 Marker Matches section. The time to a common ancestor for these matches may extend beyond genealogical records and the adoption of surnames.”

Mark S. Elliott    7/25/2015

Robert son of Nicholas Stuteville, they had land of Gresham, Cottingham (near Cave), and Scarborough.

Nic of Forest in Liddel father of Robt (1)

Nic of Forest in Liddel father of Robt (2)

Nic of Forest in Liddel father of Robt (3)

Wake Stuteville Bourne, Lincoln Co Scarborough Caste, Cottingham Co, York, Liddel Strength

MSE  4/23/2016

Barony of Bourne the Danish Bear

It is found that for Gresham (Grisham & Grissom), Cave (North& South), and Scarborough the these are localites today on the North Sea of England, which previous to England ca 1320, the land in these regions was own by the Stuteville family. The Stuteville family own land in the Barony of Bourne (Dannish for bear), about 10mi/16km southeast of Grantham formally Graham. The border Graham are found with towersin the Debateble lands of the Stuteville family, that of Nicholas Stuteville’s forest, an their Liddle Strenght Castle (The Mote/Moat). Grisham (Grisham and Grissom), Cave of de Cave, married to a Stuteville, and Scarborough, of the first marker a 14, in a strong group share the next twelve markers, indicating the same DNA grouping pre-surname, shared the Gresham-Cave-Scarbourgh land of the Stuteville family.

Referrences in the following graphics;

Grisham Elwald

Wake Stuteville Bourne, Lincoln Co Scarborough Caste, Cottingham Co, York, Liddel StrengthNic of Forest in Liddel father of Robt (2)Nic of Forest in Liddel father of Robt (3)Wake Stuteville Bourne, Lincoln Co Scarborough Caste, Cottingham Co, York, Liddel Strength

Scarborough Castle

Stuteville own land of Gresham, of N&S Cave and married Cave, and of Scarborough, at the time which a group liven on or near Stuteville, land descended from the same father would  adopt their names from their respective localities of Gresham, Cave and Scarborough.

Migrating  towards Nicolas Stuteville’s forest and castle The Mote/Moat.

Scandinavian-place-name-map

saxmap

Mark S. Elliott 4/24/2016

Gresham-Grisham-Grissam FTDA;

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Gresham_Grissom/default.aspx?section=yresults

Gresham Grisham Gissom DNA

Scarborough FTDA;

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/scarborough/default.aspx?section=yresults

Scarborough 12 marker match ups

“de (of) Scarburgh” pronounce Scarborough, like Edinburgh pronounce Edinborough, but “de Scarburgh” became a surname spelled “Scarborough”, like it sounded.

Showing that Gresham and Scarborough are named from their respective localities in the UK, and pre-surname likely of land of the same owner de Stuteville family.

Mark S. Elliott 4/28/2016

Barony of Borne (the Danish Bear)

Barony of Bourne, which in Danish means bear, known to be a progeny of the Armstrong; the Bourne, fair skin Fairbourne, light or white skin Osbourne, the Bourne family, in which many of the Danish aspect of Fairbairn, evolved to the name Armstrong. Barony of Bourne, own lands of Gresham, Cave, Scarborough, on the North Sea along with Liddel Strength Castle; The Mote, in the Debatable lands region, on and previous to the English-Scottish Border. The Cave, Wake and Stutville were related by marriage, and people of the same Y-DNA base previously to acquiring surnames lived at these respective localities, and acquired the surname of the locality they lived at, with my surname it was the son of and Elfwald and the surname became Elwald. Utilizing Y-DNA twelve mark matches was able to find relation to people named after these localities, and was able to find the family being near Gresham.

Barony of Bourne, and Croyland map

Mark Elliott 4/28/2016

Of in 1 off in 25 from Germany, and 2 off in 25 between Bec, Norfolk, and Rimington, now Lancashire.

Quebbemann, of Germany one marker off in 25;

1 in 25 Quebbemann (1) 1 in 25 Quebbemann (2)

Brook 2 off in 25 on migratory pathway between Norfolk, and today’s Lancashire.

2 in 25 Brook (1) 2 in 25 Brook (2)

Gledhill 2 off in 25 on migratory pathway between Norfolk, and today’s Lancashire.

2in 25 for Gedhill (1) 2in 25 for Gedhill (2) 2in 25 for Gedhill (3)

MSE  4/28/2016

Named Public Profiler

UK surname concentrations;

Cave;

cave-uk

Gresham;

gresham-uk

Scarborough;

scarborough-uk

10/11/2016 MSE

Land info;

Barony of Bourne (Bjorn) Lincolnshire; Liddel Strength-The Mote, Cave-Cottingham East Riding Yorkshire, Gresham Norfolk, and Scarborough Durham.

  

1/23/2017

Correction in investigation;

It is felt the location of the Scarborough, is likely that of “de Scorborough” becoming Scorborough, and changing to Scarborough. This is given the census concentration of Scarborough, is closer to Scorborough, East Riding, then Scarborough, Norte Yorkshire, and closer to Cave and Cottingham region where in am closely match by Y-DNA.

MSE  5/26/2017

Gresham-Grisham-Grissam FTDA;

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Gresham_Grissom/default.aspx?section=yresults

Gresham Grisham Gissom DNA

Scarborough FTDA;

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/scarborough/default.aspx?section=yresults

Scarborough 12 marker match ups

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/CaveFamilyHistorySocietyDNA/default.aspx?section=yresults

Showing that Gresham and Scarborough are named from their respective localities in the UK, and pre-surname likely of land of the same owner de Stuteville family.

10/7/2017 MSE

Share
One comment on “Genealogy Geographic Surname DNA Elliot
  1. Kaye Grisham-Sass says:

    I did my brother’s DNA which is related to Andrew Nd Troy Grisham yet I did not see on chart. Very interesting pinpointing the area in England.

    My brother is James Mauris “Pete” Grisham and his kit is 342725.

    Kaye

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

*